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irefrixs19 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Let’s talk about the card “32038”.

Our current understanding is that the effects of dealing damage and discarding the villain’s attachment resolve sequentially. This means that the attachment is discarded only after the damage has been fully resolved, which would result in you taking the retaliate damage when you deal damage to the villain.

However, we want to ensure that this behavior is correct. If you have any references from the FAQ or additional insights on this situation, please share them with us. Your input is greatly appreciated!

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Average4PlayersGame16 days ago (1 edit)

For "32038", I believe these sentences would clear things up,

RRG 1.6 page 4 under "Ability" section:

When an ability has more than one sentence of text, read the entirety of the ability to check for alteration effects that may change the way the ability resolves. Then, resolve the ability one sentence at a time.

RRG 1.6 page 9 under "Attack (Player Ability Type)"

The order of resolution for abilities triggered by the resolution of an attack is as follows:
1. The retaliate X keyword (if the attacked character was not defeated).
2. Forced abilities with the following triggers (in any order):
      » » “after [character] attacks [and damages/defeats] [an enemy/a minion]...”
      » » “after [character] is attacked...”
3. Non-forced abilities with the triggers listed above.
4. Consequential damage (for allies).

and

If a triggered ability is labeled as an attack—such as “Hero Action (attack)”—resolving that ability is considered to attack the specified target. Unless specified by the ability’s text, a hero does not exhaust when using such an ability.

These rules imply that, ability on cards that contain (attack) should be fully resolved before Retaliate kicks in.

If this is not clear enough, RRG 1.6 page 9 under "Attack (Enemy Activation)"

The attack finishes resolving and the following types of abilities trigger in order:
a. The retaliate X keyword (if the attacked character was not defeated).
b. Forced abilities with the following triggers (in any order):
      » » “after [character] attacks [and damages/defeats] [you/an ally]...”
      » » “after [character] is attacked...”
      » » “after [character] defends [and takes no damage]...”
c. Non-forced abilities with the triggers listed above.

This clearly states that Retaliate should have trigger after the attack is fully resolved.

Hope this clear up my point.

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irefrixs16 days ago

Hi @Average4PlayersGame,

Thank you for your insights. If I understand correctly, you mentioned that if a card is labeled ‘attack’, all statements on that card should be treated as part of that attack.

However, we found another card, “37014”, with similar statements:

Deal 4 damage to an enemy. If that enemy is defeated by this attack, remove 2 threat from a scheme.

We believe that the “If XXX, remove 2 threat from a scheme” part should not be considered part of the attack itself; rather, it should be treated as a “DELAYED EFFECT”.

Similarly, card “32038” states:

Deal 6 damage to an enemy. If you are in Phased mass form, you may discard an attachment with the text “Hero Action” or “Hero Response” from that enemy.

In this case, we propose that the “If you XXX, you may XXX” part can also be regarded as a “DELAYED EFFECT”.

To ensure we are interpreting this correctly, could you please provide any references from the FAQ or additional insights on this matter? Your input would be greatly appreciated!

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Average4PlayersGame15 days ago (1 edit)

I've looked into the Delay Effect in RRG 1.6 page 15. It states

 Some abilities contain delayed effects. Such abilities specify a future timing point, or indicate a future condition that may arise, and dictate an effect that is to happen at that time.
 • • Delayed effects resolve automatically and immediately after their specified timing point or future condition occurs or becomes true, and before responses to that point or condition may be used. Delayed effects have the same timing priority as constant effects. 
• • When a delayed effect resolves, it is not treated as a new triggered ability, even if the delayed effect was originally created by a triggered ability.

This leads me to believe that Delayed Effect still, in fact, triggers before Retaliate. Even if it triggers as a constant effect, player should be able to pick the sequence as it triggers in the same timing windows.

RRG 1.6 page 5 under "Ability"

 Simultaneous Timing Priority — Some abilities have timing priority over other abilities. In order, the timing priority of abilities with the same triggering condition is: 
1. Constant abilities, delayed effects, lasting effects, keywords, and icons. 
2. Status cards. 
3. “Forced Interrupt” abilities. 
4. “Interrupt” abilities. 
5. “Boost,” “When Defeated,” and “When Revealed” abilities.
 6. “Forced Response” abilities. 
7. “Response” abilities. 
8. Consequential damage.

Keep up the work, you're doing really great job!

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