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Soooo I replayed the game again and...I sorta have a hypothesis on how Kuro determines when their life in the simulation ends after the big fight ended.

Sooooo they will see this sign and know it is near, cuz the time varies. In the Princess route they had a week or so if I remember correctly before Kuro was gone, and in the detective route it was shortly after the fight. Soooo I noticed the rainbow. I can't remember if other routes had this showing up but in the princess route, after the fight with Kai and everything was sunny in the land, in the background there was a rainbow, and in the detective route there was the rainbow cotton candy and even rainbow ferris wheel (probably a hint to where to take her???) My theory is that if they see the rainbow after defeating the big bad of the route then they will be gone shortly after. But this may also be totally wrong and maybe there is another meaning to the rainbows. After the route a cg with rainbows appear and MC sees a place with rainbows. So what's up with the rainbows? Hehe. Do they somehow symbolize a new beginning in the game? I am curious about this rainbow theme going on hehe.

And the place with rainbows...is that place like inside her cobsciousness as she is being pulled out of the simulation?

Also in the princess route why was Kuro pulled out first when usually it is Kuro who makes her fall asleep in order to take her out of the simulation. Also is the reason he makes her sleep in most routes is that so she will not notice the transition to when she is pulled out?

Melancholy Marionette4 years ago (1 edit)

I'm so sorry my reply has taken a lot longer this time >.< I've been super busy with work related to my other project, CiQ, haha. My good friend Anthony is helping me with casting and the audition deadline was last week so he sent me lots of auditions to listen to. We spent the week trying to pick the final cast and I was preparing scripts to get sent out to em :3 Can't believe how much time has passed already, it's like the whole week just flew by! Haha. Anyways, I shall go ahead and get to replying now :D

SPOILERS

Although you don't see the pairs being tested other than the ones you play as, there are other lab workers + test rooms all testing various pairs at the same time. So while you're playing as MC, there are loooooads of other pairs being tested by different people who aren't as important/high ranking as Raine. Raine and Isaac tend to just work with whichever pairings are showing the most potential (not always though cos sometimes they go on tours of the lab and drop in on other workers to check on their progress and stuff) :3

You're correct about if a pairing is successful they will be used in another route :3 The number they have is just kinda like their model/factory number though. The lower the number, the older the body. So 26's body was pretty old and had been through a lot x3 The fact that they put part of 26's consciousness in 339 is supposed to sorta show how many MC's they're going through cos they go through em in number order, and the next available unit to wake up was the 339th unit in the lab. As for Kuro, the one in the training room would remember fragments of what happened during the simulations, but more importantly, he remembers what is happening outside of the simulations. They let him remember on purpose so that he's easier to break >.< And the one that you see with 26 is pretty broken :( He wouldn't always have been like that, but all the years of knowing that the simulations are more like a dream/escape and then having to face the horrible reality he's stuck in really wore him down.

When he talks about having explained to 26 over and over, he means that he's tried to get her to remember/understand that the simulations are exactly that, and that where they are right now is reality, but because they always take that information from her, he was never able to successfully get her to see that truth. So in the end he just gave up trying :(

I only called her 26 cos it was my age at the time of writing her part of the story :3 I tend to think of her as the heroine of the 5 main routes also. I'm 28 now, haha.

In the simulations, Isaac would have wanted physical feelings and sensations to feel as real as possible, so I'd say that they're probably stringer than the sensations of a dream, but not quite as powerful as how they would actually feel in reality.

As for the creepy voice's reaction to the ending you picked, yeah, he doesn't like it if you pick that one x3 But it's okay, they're safe, he's basically just throwing a tantrum and showing you what he thinks of sweet things/threatening you, haha. There are some slight changes in his dialogue at the end. He says something slightly different for each choice that you pick during the conversation with him + he has one slightly different name if your player name is Anathema :3

I'm glad you liked S****'s sprite :D I thought he was the best looking one too x3 I went a little crazy adding all the belts to him xD I kinda wanted to make him look like a Final Fantasy character, haha. I love detective Kuro's hair x3 it's all flowy kinda like he's underwater :D His body looks super feminine though with it being in that tight outfit >.< haha. I mean his sprite body is technically just a flat-chested female body xD There are nowhere near enough sprite resources around for male bodied sprites T_T Oh gosh, I think all of the Kuro's drawn in Mei's art style would have looked incredibly gorgeous cos the student route one that she drew is HOT x3 haha.

As for floating, I can't actually remember x3 I don't think I had mage or gamer Kuro floating. I hadn't really decided for student Kuro, but I don't think I referenced him floating. It was more just something I thought would suit the detective one that anything else :3

The clones are fairly close to human, yeah :3 Not quite 100% since they've been manufactured in the lab. They have certain alterations to their bodies to make them more durable and stuff, but for the most part, they have flesh and bone like you say. They don't really need to eat, but they able to process food. If any of the Kuro's were gonna have a sweet tooth I'd say it would be the detective and gamer ones :D I can imagine the gamer Kuro just innocently sucking on lollipops or something x3 and detective Kuro with his candyfloss, haha.

In regards to mage route Kuro being indecisive about where MC should go, that version of Kuro is the most sorta split between wanting to help MC and wanting to destroy MC x3 They pretty much have ended up with a split personality and try really hard to keep it under control with the route. The indecisiveness is Kuro having an internal battle between the two personalities. The unfortunate bad end that follows is what happens when the twisted side of Kuro comes to the surface and defeats the sweet side x3 So you're exactly right when you say it seemed like there were two Kuro's in there! By that point in their story, poor Kuro is already pretty messed up from years of going through what they have. The Kuro in the 5 routes is always struggling internally to keep the crazy part of him locked away, but in the mage route, he just doesn't do a very good job of suppressing that x3

Yeah, a lot of the music on Incompetech is incredible :3 I couldn't have asked for a better library to choose from! Almost all of the tracks came from there aside from the odd few that came from Purple Planet Music and then some that I own from a music pack I bought many years ago, haha.

The Kuro's kinda treat the simulations as a holiday when they're worn down, because getting to live that life is better than life in the lab, so in a way, it's like a breath of fresh air for them and they enjoy the 'freedom' that they have there compared to what they get in the lab. Kinda like if your whole life is a nightmare, you're gonna prefer a having dreams to facing your nightmare reality x3 When they're fresh Kuro's, they're less aware of what goes on in reality, so they treat the simulations more seriously like they really mean something, whereas the more worn down Kuro's know it's all gonna come to an end, but at least it's better than lab life x3

Aww, I'm so glad to hear that I indirectly helped you by linking you to Incompetech :3 How did the presentation go in the end? I hope it turned out great and that you were happy with it :D

I would honestly love to say that your hypothesis on rainbows is correct, cos it sounds really awesome! But I'd be lying if I claimed that x3 haha. I hate to say it, but the rainbows don't really have any significance :( I wish they did now you've said what you said cos that would have been a cool idea to have! In truth though, I don't know why I picked those backgrounds >.< I had a big resource pack of free backgrounds that were all different colours with different patterns in and for some reason my brain decided to go with those ones to represent the transitions between simulation and reality x3 Since they don't have an official meaning, your rainbow theory could be adopted as canon if ya like :D Cos I think that's a really neat way of looking at it!

The rainbow places are supposed to kinda be like within her consciousness in between worlds, yeah, cos it's like there's no actual physical space when transitioning, so the only thing there is the mind :3 Kinda the same as some of the moving backgrounds like the goopy ones and the sparkly ones are supposed to represent the same thing.

There's no real reason in particular why Kuro was pulled out first in the princess route. It would have happened in other scenarios that we don't get to see as well, it's just more common for Isaac or Raine to allow them to have a sort of goodbye at the end. Though I guess you could kinda look at it as when they're allowed to have a nice goodbye together it's when Raine is overseeing operations since she's kinda, and when Kuro is pulled first it could be when Isaac is overseeing cos he's not as nice as Raine x3 haha. And yeah, the reason he usually helps her is because the transition is kinda jarring and would possibly leave an imprint in her mind of the change between worlds even after memory wiping. It's more that Kuro is ordered to send her to sleep that way cos they don't want her gaining too much awareness of the simulations. So if she's blacked out it's easier for them to move her mind from one place to another. Kinda like putting a computer into sleep mode x3

I'm sorry once again for how late my reply is! I hope you've had a fantastic week + that you have a lovely weekend :3

Azure Rose4 years ago (2 edits)

Hello! Thank you so much for this reply again haha, it really felt like I got a surprise dessert haha. I really didn't mind that the reply was longer this time, I'm just happy that there even is a reply haha, understandable as irl stuff can be overwhelming some days.

Annddd I am happy to say that my teachers LOVED it! The music set the tone of the videos so well, especially when it came to introducing our course and the student council. But while they were actually enjoying the slideshow for the introduction of the council officers my mind was actually going through a series of flashbacks from the gamer route (as I ended up using the music from the very beginming of that route). So yeah, thanks again haha.

Alsooooo I still can't get over the game haha, sooo I replayed it again. Andddd I noticed something in the student route. The principal was able to see Kuro right because they were one and the same, how were they one and the same? Was the principal Isaac or another experiment? I'm guessing that Kuro saying he was a part of all of that was him saying that he is part of the simulations being done to them. It boggles me just how I missed that blatantly obvious hint the first time I played haha.

Alsoooo yaaay! Now I really deem Mage Kuro as the one who is most similar to Ukyo, with the green hair and split personality and all. Idk, the association just makes it more painful for me haha, painful in the heartbreaking way cuz they are both tragic lovers so I remember both in each other. But somehow detective route Kuro is still my favourite even after the multiple playthroughs. In my mind it's as if he's the official Kuro haha.

Azure Rose4 years ago

Alsooo, it actually cleared something up for me, sooo 26's memories was put shortly into 339 right? They didn't have to go through 27 then 28 them 29 and so on, sooo 339 was already the next in line to wake up. Sooo is she also the latest unit? Or how many more were produced after her and Kuro?

Alsooo since they are also humans...do they need to eat too?

Anddd now I'm curious about this too, how does Kuro of the 5 routes sleep, he seems to get tired as he stiffles a yawn. While he and the MC are actually in a simulation, can they actually get tired?

Azure Rose4 years ago

I replayed the game again, I couldn't help it. Well, I got through to the Princess route and I just confirmed that Kuro hovers! Now I am curious as to how far he can go. Can he basically float really really high and far away and just choose not to cuz he don't want to be far from the MC or does he have limitations like 1km away from her.

Replaying the game, it showed just how competent Kuro was as a spirit guide. I could have gotten straight to the good ending of a route 95% of the time just by following his suggestions and choosing what would be a more comfortable choice for him (he'll murder me if he's not happy anyway lol) and he makes so much sense at most times (if he is not being too yandere). Most remarkable times was when he advised the MC to execute the traitors and in the detective route where he theorized the trap the villaim had for the MC and when he said that the MC's genuine kindness and selflessness wasn't a weakness. I guess that's another thing I liked about Kuro. He is always so supportive and sees the best in the MC, he really just wants to see her fluorish. And he knows when to correct her when the situation calls for it, and he owns up when he has mistakes. Those moments made me really admire Kuro as a character and showed tgat he really loved her.

It pained me to choose the wrong choices cuz I knew I was gonna hurt Kuro in some way (the one where MC kissed Farro became more painful to me cuz after I knew that Kuro was in pain everytime Farro touched her, I understood why Kuro just let her suffer, cuz Kuro himself must have suffered terribly out of jealousy and extreme pain when they kissed). But they were essential to know more about the plot and to further the point that they were in a simulation sooooo that gave me a reason to actually choose them. I find it neat though that you get to go back to fix toir mistakes and even if Kuro knows you made a mistake, he still loves the MC.

Melancholy Marionette4 years ago

I'm so sorry for how late my reply is again! >.< I was working like crazy on my entry for Scream Jam 2020, Impostor, haha. It was a 10 day game jam but I only had 7 days to work on it. Been getting around 4 hours sleep a night and working for as many hours of the day/night as possible to get it done xD Thankfully, I managed to finish it in time :3

That's so great that your teachers loved your presentation! I'm glad it went well for you :3

SPOILERS

You pretty much got it right with what you said about the principal in the student route :D It's supposed to be Isaac playing that part, cos he's such an evil bugger that he sometimes enjoys playing the villain role in the simulations himself when he has the time! It's kinda like a hobby for him to torment people I think >.< And yeah, Kuro was refencing the fact that he knows the truth about what's going on, and he's a part of it and can't help MC so he feels kinda guilty/responsible about it.

I probably wound up giving mage Kuro the green hair subconsciously cos I was thinking of Ukyo or something xD

Yeah, 26's memories and experiences were put into 339 :3 27, 28, 29 etc. would have existed at some point but by the time we see the story they have either been discontinued as units, or they are still running simulations but aren't as successful as 26. You're right that 339 was the next unit to be woken up, so she would have been the latest one. They would have had hundreds more units of MC and Kuro in storage though, with the ability to produce more down there in the lab.

I never really thought about if they would need to eat or not actually! It would make more sense for the clones to have been made without the need for food so that they're more durable and don't have to stop testing for food breaks. Isaac managed to make artificial lungs and stuff for S****, so I guess it's possible he could have made something weird to replace the need for food, haha.

I would say that they can get tired when they're in simulations, yeah :3 Cos the simulations are supposed to feel real, so they would experience fatigue in the same sorta way people normally would I guess. Probably more mental tiredness than physical, but they can feel physical exertion within the simulations too.

You probably know more about the little details of Kuro like the hovering and stuff than I do now! Haha :3 I wrote it all so long ago that I forget a lot of the small details x3 Back when I was testing I was sometimes surprised by certain scenes cos I forgot what I wrote xD Usually when I'm testing I kinda turn into a zombie cos it gets really boring reading the stuff so many times over while looking for bugs and typos that I end up switching off >.< It also gets really hard to tell if the writing is okay cos it gets to the point where I'm just so fed up with seeing it that it all looks like crap T_T haha.

In the simulations, Kuro could probably couldn't float that high cos there would be some form of limitations in place to keep his activity somewhat restricted to however Isaac wants :(

Yeah, Kuro just wants to see MC succeed really so he usually tries his best to help lead her on the right path :3 He never really wants to hurt her, he just kinda breaks sometimes >.< haha. You're exactly right when you say he just wants to support her and see her flourish :3
Isaac kinda wants MC to make mistakes so that both her and the Kuro's suffer more, but ultimately he also wants her to learn from those mistakes too in order to further her sorta power level.

Again, I'm so sorry it took me so long to get back to you! I can't believe it's been almost 2 weeks already! o.O I honestly don't know where the time goes sometimes >.< Just been waaaaay too absorbed in working on game project stuff. I hope you're doing okay, have been having a great week, and that you have a super duper weekend! ^-^

Azure Rose4 years ago

Hello!~ thank you so much for this reply! ^_^ It's really fine with me that the reply took longer. Time flies by me too so I didn't really notice it that much haha, especially with how much schoolwork that was dumped on us right now hahaha, it really feels that a day goes by so fast!

Buuutttt I was curious about somethings again hehe. In the routes how do they live together? Does Kuro help with chores? Does Kuro have hobbies in the routes whenever he disappears or does he just watch whatever the MC is doing constantly?

Alsoooo I pondered this a bit and I feel so bad for the Kuros. I mean they would probably be really sad when the route is over. Is that why Kuro sounded a bit distant in the good ends? Now I also feel bad about the Kuro who was always mad at 339, he must have been a fresh Kuro so after marrying the MC and being pulled out of the simulation he must have been pretty confused and angry. It is really impressive how the Kuros can live inside the simulation so happily with the MC as if nothing is wrong even if they know the horrors of lab life (except when their crazy side comes up).

I have another question about the routes too, when do they really start? Like does the simulation start as seen in the visual novel and that the memories shown in the flashnacks are just implanted, or does the simulation really start when they are kids?

Alsoooo, I found something interesting in the gamer route. Around the scene where Kuro and the MC kissed and Kuro said that all he wanted was to touch her in reality, I find it odd how he said that he will do anything to protect this "dream". He didn't say reality. Sooooo, was he referring to the simulation? Him not wanting to leave the simulation and be with the MC forever?

Kuro from the 5 routes is really different from the one in reality. The one in the 5 routes is the closest to his real self right? Cuz he gets to be himself in the route (though a tweaked version).

Alsoooo it was a nice touch how the sunrise was used. In the bad end where the MC and Kuro venture off into the desserted wasteland and in the true end where Shiro and og!MC are in the balcony/roof. It really felt like a new beginning for them.

Alsoooo how does Kuro do it? Sending her to sleep I mean. In the princess route he makes her drink tea. In the the detective route, I forgot but is it another kiss of sleep? Like in the mage route? Does the same happen in the student route? How can Kuro send her to sleep with a kiss? In the middle of the detective route Kuro is able to do this with just a kiss on her forehead. I'm guessing that in the gamer route they are just pulled out of the simulation without anyone sleeping?

Azure Rose4 years ago

Oh my these are actually a lot of questions. Just take your time with these I don't really mind hehe. ^_^

Azure Rose4 years ago

I also forgot to say this as well but I do hope you get to rest well, cuz wow 4 hours of sleep time everyday, I really do hope you get to rest well.

Melancholy Marionette4 years ago

I hope you're coping alright with all that work being dumped on you then x3 haha.

I guess in the simulations they don't really have much in the way of a normal everyday routine so they wouldn't need to do a whole lot in the way of chores and stuff. They might do stuff like that a couple of times for some sorta normality in the sims, but they wouldn't really get that much of a chance to live together in peace before they're sorta pushed into dangerous situations. Even if they did get to live a normal sorta life for an extended period of time, I think like you said, Kuro would just wanna spend all his time as close to MC as possible anyways x3

Yeah, most of the Kuro's don't really want the sims to end since they actually get to spend some time with MC doing nice things together. Whereas in the lab, the Kuro's are either locked up alone, or being made to hurt MC >.< You're right about the super angry Kuro, he had very little awareness as to what was actually going on because he was a newer unit when all the shit went down, haha, so as far as he was concerned, the sims were his reality and MC betrayed him. I guess when the Kuro's become more aware of the reality of lab life, they kinda cling on to the sims cos it's the only time they get to be with MC and have any sort of happiness :(

The simulation starts pretty much where you see it in the VN. Like you say, the flashback memories are just implanted at the beginning in order to settle MC into the scenario and make it more believable for her :3

With the gamer Kuro stuff, he was kinda referring to both the sim and reality. In many ways he doesn't wanna leave the sim so he can stay with MC forever, but at the same time, he wants to be able to be with her in reality too. He's not really allowed to say much about reality to MC though, and even if he did, they'd just wipe it from her mind anyhow. So he speaks to her as though the sim is their reality. But yeah, he kinda means both if that makes any sense at all x3 I probably did a terrible job of explaining that, haha.

I guess all the Kuro's are kinda unique in their own way, whether it's cos they've been tweaked on purpose or cos they've grown through experience. They're a fair bit different to the original S****, but that's not really their fault x3 You're right that he does get to be himself in the sims, he has some small degree of freedom while in those, but outside of the sims, they don't really have any freedom at all so most of the Kuro's tend to act quite differently to how they do in the sims because they kinda just retreat into themselves and give up on any kind of happiness, just waiting for the next sim to start.

Yeah, I really love some of the background art packs I bought that have time of day changes :3 They look cool when you tell Tyrano to crossfade from one to another, haha.

I guess in a way, Kuro doesn't technically send MC to sleep himself. It's more like the sim is over and he's allowed to have some sorta sweet time to say goodbye to her before she's pulled out (sometimes anyhow, if Isaac is being a bastard then he might not allow it!) There's not really anything in Kuro's kisses, or the tea that he gives MC that sends her to sleep, it's more kinda like a trigger I guess. Or like when you hear about how spies can be activated by hearing trigger words and stuff x3 Sleeping within the sims isn't really sleeping though, it's kinda forced and doesn't last for the amount of time that real sleep would. It's more like a little blip or a pause and MC just thinks/feels as though she's been to sleep if it's during a sim like when days pass.

No worries on the questions anyhow :D I managed to sleep a little longer last night but still feel restless/in the routine of not sleeping much xD Going to see some of my family later that I haven't seen in months :3 Will probably have a fairly relaxing weekend... eat junk food, watch some movies, chill with family, and go on a nice walk somewhere :3 I hope you get to have a nice weekend yourself and that you don't get too exhausted with your schoolwork!

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