Post by 16bitnights in MARKETING on Facebook 2021

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I am sorry but I disagree.

A couple of years ago a huge amount of devs were spamming links to games on groups and make FB pages for those games, unfortunately, more than 90% of them were garbage and facebook noticed that so in the current day you either work for your exposure and engagement (like I did in the post above) or you pay money (funny thing is that I found trough my latest experience is that making free marketing on Facebook brings more engagement than paid marketing on Facebook).

Don`t hate the player, hate the game.

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firecat3 years ago

yes that was years before the whole facebook problem, things change after that. Many groups now have reddit like rules where you cant post such things, mods/owner will delete the post or kick you out. Many of the people who used facebook either deleted their account or left for twitter/other. Now paying is no longer a better choice either because facebook was caught breaking equal viewing laws in the USA, you can not target your ads to only gamers, its a waste of money to spent it on facebook.

the only people who are left are old people who yet to understand why people hate facebook.

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16bitnights3 years ago (1 edit)

no one likes facebook anymore - I got approached by 3 big game publisher via the "indie game players & developers" Facebook group and got around in total 400 WL additions in 1 week after using pixel art & Xcom Facebook groups(maybe you are next level and you have double numbers in which case Kudos to you but this is still a good result for an indie dev like myself)

Many groups now have reddit like rules - Good, because I was really tired of my post to be lost in a sea of bad games link spams. It is so much better now, again what works for me it may not work for you

its a waste of money to spent - as I said, I strongly suggest free marketing for Facebook

people hate facebook - again, hate the game, not the player, all good PR agents will tell you this

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firecat3 years ago (1 edit)

You dont need a publisher, in fact there is no reason for it, unless they willing to pay money and marking you going to end up something like in youtube publisher scams. Also this happens a lot in books, games, local businesses, music, anything and anywhere that is popular. The only way to seal the deal is with a contract, you have to read it all because sometimes they will cheat you out of money. Having publishers doesnt mean it's a good thing either, you can be limited by creative, regain, laws or worst. Again there is no reason to join a publisher unless you sign a fair agreement.

steam wish list isnt accurate either, 400 of what is what you should be asking. Many groups have robots who auto subscribe when a new game shows up. You also have to consider if some of them will pay full price, i am guessing like every steam dev, you'll offer a discount. You shouldent offer discount at the very start that is bad marking, if you do such a thing than people wont buy the game at full price. Steam is also not the place to sell your game, many gamers there want discounts and if you not ready to lose a few $1,000 because of these gamers you should not be selling on steam.

this isnt about the game, its facts based on numbers. i do not know where you getting misleading information about facebook and steam but many developers have express trouble and all come to the same problem of facebook and steam playerbase. Also on to the fact that any good PR would tell you the risk of joining these companys. Facebook is in deep trouble with the US gov, possibly getting the book and splitting up to stop facebook monopoly and twitter along too. Steam is a way worst trouble with many countrys suing Valve for breaking their laws. You can not trust Valve to follow laws after many, many, many lawsuits that do show Valve being guilty . There is still one with gambling and guess what happens if Valve is guilty of making kids play gambling games, you guess it, they either shut down or your games get shutdown.

think what you doing, find reliable sources not from facebook or Valve, i been doing this longer than you can guess. gamedev is tricky and many times you find yourself with bad companys, you should always do things that support gamers never the wrong way.

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16bitnights3 years ago

You dont need a publisher - yes I know and I agree, I only stated the publishers in the context where you said no one uses Facebook. Logical if there is a supply-demand market activity that is good.

steam wish list isnt accurate either- it is accurate if you generate WLs authentical and not by using farms/giveaways

Steam is also not the place to sell your game - again, sorry to disagree, I have games both on Steam, Itch.io, Gamejolt, and others and on Steam I managed to get Serious $$$. Here is a Personal opinion based on personal Experience: On Steam I made the best money for selling games but 0 on selling art packs while on Itch I made good money for selling on my Art packs but 0 on selling games.

think what you doing, find reliable sources not from facebook or Valve, - I 100% agree with you here that is why all my statements are based only on personal experience

I feel like your statements come from your heart but they are stubborn on an idea.

Still, I do have a question for you, and answering this one is a good way to actually have a solid argument in my eyes: how much $$$ you made for your best game in the first year of release comparing Steam-other platforms? (please also include links)

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firecat3 years ago

publishers being on facebook doesnt mean there are demand, they can be scams. I remember one scam publisher called blackshellmedia who only posted twitter post or facebook post then do nothing but take a percentage each time. https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/43bo19/a_company_called_black_s...

Actually since i think about it, when facebook remove the targeted ads, there has not been any legit reason to use facebook. Anyone can make groups on other sites, reddit has automod so it makes things easier to mod while facebook lacks mods and paying people isnt the best thing for a company. Many gamedev groups are mislead people who still believe steam and unity are good starting line for gamedev.

Many professionals wouldn't even go to facebook first, they would go to twitter because they can embed tweets while facebook lacks such features as well as blocking people from seeing post, making facebook a guarded community. Actually since the goal of marking is to get everyone in the whole world to see your product, using facebook will only give you facebook users not new customers. This also goes into how your post is seen, facebook will not promote your post it doesnt have such thing nor can people searching on google find it. That just means twitter has better SEO with tags, retweet and easy ad placement on people who follow them.

back on the topic, wishlist is not accurate 400 =/= 400. As stated on steamwork: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/wishlist

unless all 400 did not opt-out of emails (which is very unlikely) you may get people buying but since no one likes having ads pop-up on email that 400 becomes somewhere to 100 or less. Even then with legit players, you have to see things from their view, your game is next to many other wishlist. If you have 400 wishlist, you have to assume each player has more choices or better, thus making wishlist a double edge sword where you have people but dont have them.

When i hear people say "oh steam sells are higher than itch or gamejolt", i know why such statements are said. You never promoted any other platform. If you only promote steam store for your game, people are going to steam, it's basic marketing 101. I seen so many people promoting only steam and then soon after a few days the game launches on itch.io/gamejolt. If you were to do the same thing with Steam then the same result is going to happen. There is also many people in GOG who hate gamedev who lie to them about their release for GOG store but never got approved or tried. The next time they see the game it's on Steam and only on steam with steam API related services needed to work. Making that game unable to go to GOG or itch.io because the gamedev doesnt know how things work without steam.

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16bitnights3 years ago

I am not going to go into details with all you said, because you avoided the only question that actually matters:

how much $$$ did you make for your best game in the first year of release comparing Steam-other platforms? (please also include links)

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firecat3 years ago

how can i compare it if my only sellable game can only be in itch.io, Amazon shutdown their PC store version, GOG rejected my game, there is no reason to sell on gamejolt, Valve cost $100 and demanded it to be integrated Steam API which is impossible because i dont have access to the game's code. Cant upload to android/apple because the export only exports to windows computer.

All this time i was working on my free game during the last 3 years to get bosses fighting fairly with the player, no bugs, fun world to explore, last minute changes to add working voice lines from a CD software during the 2005 area that majestically works with windows 10 and all without help.

All this time i have now just started working on my new paid game after i had enough money to buy a trademark for my game and currently waiting for approval. you may think it's foolish to work on a free game but the very idea of being gamedev is to have a fun game not a gambling machine. So no i can not compare it to anything when i been working on other more important things.

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16bitnights3 years ago (1 edit)

Ok so basically all your arguments are based on assumptions and stuff you read on the internet, unfortunately, the wrong side of the internet because 90% of what you said so far is totally wrong.

Good day :)))

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firecat3 years ago

no everything what you said is based on the internet, you didnt know facebook cant show non-account people post, you did not know facebook has no SEO, you dont know basic wishlist rules, you dont know anything. All of you said is a copy of what other people said, while i know through first hand experience. your words are just like this blog: https://www.gamemarketinggenie.com/blog/social-media-platforms-for-gamers

this: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-scale-your-game-steam-eric-diepeveen?articleI...

this: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/bestpractices

and this: https://www.marketconnectionsinc.com/whether-it-is-b2b-or-b2g-social-media-marke...

nothing you said is original what you did was fall for the common myth that every steam exclusive developers fell for everytime. Making your game exclusive to steam will not make you popular, rejecting other store fronts like itch.io or GOG wont make steam give you more money, facebook is the worst way to market anything. It shouldent be to hard for a newbie like you to find 1,000s of articles of people leaving facebook, boycotting their ads, scams, etc. Twitter, you can market twiiter, they have SEO tools and track each person post and embed them, facebook fails at basic SEO.

i know why you wont show your Steam sales, Valve has you on contract, i know you are legally not able to say what you sold and if you do it can mean your account can be banned. I know this contract from old contracts found on the internet, dont get so cocky about sales if you cant do it.

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