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goingbonkers3 years ago (1 edit) (+5)(-1)

(SPOILERS)I have a few questions which I still don't understand after reading through the story:

Who and what is this "spirit" that controls Chase (and eventually takes on Flynn too)?

In Leo's route, how did Flynn know Chase was in the mines(or to better state it, why was Flynn in the mines in the first place because it's highly unlikely Flynn knew where Chase was).

This might be a no-brainer question to some, but who was the true culprit involving Sydney's death?

Does the end of Flynn's route imply Flynn is the true monster and in this story?

What is the true cause of the mass hysteria in Echo? I feel as if something deeper is at play other than, "Chase's bad energy made everyone crazy".

What the hell even happened in Carl's route? It made so many references to the Smoke Room, which I don't even understand. The ending was sweet compared to the others imo.

I know most of these questions are probably still unexplained but these questions were seriously nagging my brain and I couldn't hold it any longer.

Draco The DRAGon3 years ago (3 edits) (+4)(-1)

Spoilers alert!

1. Chase is possessed by two ghosts: Sam (the actually good one) and the mirror ghost (from TJ route), the mirror one is probably responsible for Chase killing Sydney back in the day.

2. (I think) the reason Flynn is present in the mines is the same as in Flynn's route, he got there because of his histeria hallucinations that led to safe otter from death.

3. 99% Chase, however as I mentioned before I doubt Chase killed otter without exterior influence (the most probably the mirror ghost made him to do it)

4. There is a lot of ghosts in Echo, Flynn is the one that can travel through timeliness, the "socketface", the very same that Jenna, TJ etc. saw through their life

5. (I think) it is the main reason of the mass histeria beginning. Chase didn't want anyone to know what he did so fatal forces had to make histeria again to reveal truth. I do believe it is the reason, because in TJ route there is no histeria, the most likely reason is because TJ made a game that lead to reveal Chase's murder and histeria wasn't necessary. It wasn't otter's bad energy, it was his sin from the past that lead to this tragedy.

6. I don't understand? The whole plot was that the people trapped in "inception" had to reveal the Jack's? James'? rape on kids? whatever xd. This one that possessed Carl though

If someone see that I made a mistake or has other theory feel free to write it down, there is no plain answer for most of the questions :)

Zux3 years ago(+5)

Spoilers alert!

I apologize for the long post in advance.

I recently finished all the routes in the game + Route 65 and agree with most of what you said. I haven't played The Smoke Room yet, but have seen Build 2 for Arches, so I may be missing something talked about in TSR.

1. Chase does appear to be possessed, however, I'm not sure that Sam is actually good. In Flynn's route he pushes Chase and Flynn to condemn each other and guides Flynn into the mines to become the Red Socket Monster. Maybe I misunderstand Sam's reasoning, but between that, his constant insults towards Chase, and how Mr. Bronson and Sydney reacted to being possessed by Sam, I'm led to believe that he is probably not a good spirit either.

2. I think you are right on this one. Flynn never really explains why he knew in Leo's route and its not explained in other routes. I assume it was either the Hysteria giving him that info (Similar to how he was led to the mines on his route) or that the Moore family knows more about the source of the Hysteria and Flynn's aunt tipped him off.

3. I 100% agree with you that it is likely that Chase was possessed when killing Sydney (if that is what happened). Chase is repeatedly described as being a good simmer for his friend group but bad by Otter standards. Sydney (also an Otter) is more athletic that Chase but somehow could not hold his own against Chase. While Chase did get a surprise attack on Sydney, the speed and power needed to hold down another person long enough to drown them is beyond a 10 year old in my opinion, especially when they should be able to hold their breath as long as you. I think Chase was given extra strength to kill Sydney by the Mirror Ghost (Likely a spirit that wants the Hysteria to occur) to kill Sydney. This would be similar to when Chase gains strength to beat up Flynn in TJ's route.

I do want to mention though it is strange to me that the only route that attempts to confirm Chase killed Sydney is TJ's. It is touched on with people accusing Chase in Leo, Flynn and Jenna's routes (And I assume Duke was accusing Chase in Carl's route, but it never fully came up), however, none of those routes fully confirm it. Chase when not possessed (by the Mirror Ghost) doesn't seem to really remember it, but in TJ's route he gets either fully or near fully possessed and seems to realize what happened. Only in TJ's route does he seem to admit to killing Sydney. I have some theories regarding the Timeline and how Route 65 works as a prequel but this is already a long post.

4. I think you got this dead right, so I have nothing to add.

5. So the Hysteria seems to be a cyclical aspect of Echo, caused either by the Quartz in the mines or just some cursed aspect of the land itself. The area absorbs the negative energy of the people who are in the area over time. Every so often the negative energy is released back onto the town's inhabitants and you get a Hysteria Event. The trigger of an event appears to be whenever a murder occurs and the killer gets away without being caught, but I think that is not quite on the money. For example Mr. Bronson and Janice killed Sam and hid the body, but there was no Hysteria in the 70s (The most recent event at that time was the 60s if I recall correctly), Sydney's accident with his father could also have been a trigger but nothing beyond the possession seems to have happened for either of them. There is also the issue with Brian killing 19 people and none of their deaths appear to act as a trigger for the Hysteria, but somehow Chase returning to town is the trigger. It's also mentioned that the Hysteria would have happened eventually even if Chase never returned, so Chase's return was just the tipping point. This leads me to believe that the true Trigger is Chase having relationship issues with the rest of the friend group.

Each friend has some reason they care deeply about Chase and want him to spend time with them, so when Chase focuses on someone else their issues seem to intensify. Examples include: Leo's Chase Tulpa, Carl's route being about a haunted house which was why Chase spent the entire summer in 5th grade with him as well as Carl having an imaginary Chase he spoke to when crashing his car, TJ always wants Chase to join him on a hike and Jenna mentions that TJ was most excited to see Chase, Flynn has a strong attraction to Chase but believes that it wouldn't work due to a variety of circumstances, and last but not least is Jenna mentioning she gets jealous of what she can't have and when Chase spends time with her she flaunts it in front of Leo. I think that due to everyone wanting Chase to spend time with them, stresses the group and also may be the reason why Chase appears to be the center of focus for the Hysteria. Throw in that Chase probably killed Sydney on top of that and you've got a huge storm coming, honey.

6. Carl's route is a bit off, but that may be due to it being written first. James and John are possessing their descendants (Carl and Jenna) in a fight to either hide what really happened or reveal the truth of who was the pedophilic serial killer (The worst combo). Chase gets wrapped up in this due to the town using him as the witness that has to figure out which spirit is telling the truth and which one lies, while Raven kinda got stuck by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Carl's route feels the most disconnected with what is going on in Echo, but that is due to it really being focused on what happened around the time of The Smoke Room. Since it takes place around that time it makes sense for TSR to have a few references to Carl's route.

As stated before I just finished the game and haven't check out TSR so I could be missing somethings and this is all just my two cents. If there is something wrong or you have a different theory, I would love to hear it.

Thanks for reading my TED talk.

Draco The DRAGon3 years ago(+1)

dude, you apologize for such a long and factual com? I love when people are REALY trying to explain something, the longer com the better :)

Zux3 years ago

Thanks! I've been thinking over Echo a ton recently and have a few theories about some things within the plot.

The weirdest theory I have involves the various timelines and how Route 65 not only affects which route you are on in Echo, but might also affect what happened during the groups childhood.

I would love to see what other theories people have though cause it would be nice to see other perspectives on what happened in Echo.

Frowst3 years ago

I love your explanations on events so far. I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on the route 65 changes to the group dynamic as I havent placed those pieces together yet myself.

The one thing I think I have a slightly differing opinion on is what happened at the end of Flynns route.

Spoilers!

I dont believe that Flynn is going through time. He is experiencing the events that happened in echo from the "almagamations" perspective as he's being assimilated in to it. I believe this is because he left everything (Carl and Dax who were representations of a good past friend and friends he could make) behind to learn the truth about what happened to Sydney. The spirit then takes the truth from him as he loses his eyesight.

Zux3 years ago(+1)

Thanks! I'm glad you like my explanations. Since I've written them, I've gotten to play The Smoke Room, Build 17, and Arches, Build 3, so they have developed further and changed slightly.

Spoilers!

Long Post incoming so be prepared :)

I half agree with Flynn not going through time, but this is due to what is revealed in Jenna's route. Flynn/the spirit of Sam possessing Flynn become the Red Socket Faced creature (RSF from here out) at the end of Flynn's route and they jump around to witness and interact with multiple events. Based on what we see in the game, the RSF shows up in Leo's, Flynn's and Jenna's routes, with us seeing its perspective in Flynn's route. This leads me to believe that the RSF tapped into whatever powers the Hysteria/Hum of Echo and jumps not only through time but alternate universes. The RSF was created only at the end of Flynn's route but knocks the group into the lake for both Leo and Flynn's routes (Before it was created) and was seen throughout people's childhood (TJ mentions it in Flynn's route and Jenna's route mentions multiple people saw RSF during childhood). It is also heavily hinted that the RSF in the other routes is the same as the one created in Flynn's route, as in Jenna's route the RSF is heavily protective of Jenna and for some reason Flynn never sees it in Jenna's route, with it disappearing whenever Flynn is actively with the group. I think that the reason why the RSF was created at the end of Flynn's route is due to three things. One, Flynn's need to know what happened to Sydney at the cost of everything good in his life (ex: Carl and Dax), Two, the spirit/simulation of Sam's belief that Echo needs secrets and him trying to push Flynn into creating more turmoil (Ex: The Condemn Chase scene), and Three, whatever powers the Hysteria/Hum appears to feed off of negative emotions/thoughts and uses the RSF as a source to feed from. The RSF is not fully in control of where it gets taken, as we see from it's perspective in Flynn's route, and was initially taken to multiple events filled with misery and negativity. Eventually the Flynn part of the RSF was worn down and barely giving input anymore when they were finally taken to the day Sydney drowned. Once there the RSF's eyesight was stolen from it just in time to deny Flynn to see what he desired to know most, leaving him miserable and filled with negative emotions (which the Hysteria/Hum would love).

As for my Route 65 timeline theory, funnily enough the Smoke Room and Arches also now kinda fit into it as well. Looking at the Echo Universe Timeline we assume that it branches with the choice that Chase makes at the river in 2015 of which friend he follows, however, both Flynn and Jenna's routes reveal that Chase's past is different as they are continuations of what occurred in Route 65. Route 65 appears to be the initial timeline split for Chase, when he decides who he comes out to first. What we see in Echo for Saturday through Monday when the group goes to the river, isn't the same timeline, but instead 4/5 parallel timelines that overlapped for that brief period and then split back off from each other. We see in every route that Chase is slightly different and that is likely due to him being closer to certain people after coming out to them first. For Carl's route, Chase uses more swear words and is a bit more playful with Carl, TJ's route Chase is the only one to get possessed by the 'Mirror Ghost' and is also the only one to admit to killing Sydney while all other Chases appear to not remember, Flynn's route Chase is more aggressive and pursues multiple opportunities to be with Flynn as well as call Flynn out on things while other Chases tend to be more reserved with Flynn, and Jenna's route Chase mentions having spent time with Jenna after he came out to her by reading manga with her and having deep conversations, however, in all other routes Chase is noted to have basically ignored all his friends after dating Leo. The other friends in the group appear to be slightly different based on the route, for example: Flynn is obsessed with Sydney to the point to sacrificing his life in his own route, while he lets it go in Jenna's route or TJ in his own route never mentions the RSF and instead leads the group's scavenger hunt to reveal Chase is Sydney's killer, however, in Flynn's route TJ is more focused on the RSF and barely even mentions seeing 'two brown bodies' in the water. All of this makes me question if the timeline split for the group starts with Route 65 or if instead it happened before they were even born, and each route is just a parallel version of the group.

I bring this up as The Smoke Room varies a great deal based on who's route you are on. While the game isn't finished it is unlikely each route is going to converge towards one ending, meaning that there is another timeline split in 1915. Arches also fits into this as Cameron and Devon are shown in the Epilogues of Leo, TJ and Flynn's routes. However, in all routes there are details showing that they cannot be the Cameron and Devon we see in Arches. Leo's Cameron and Devon are in Echo in 2017, while Arches takes place in 2020, TJ's Cameron and Devon mention the Hysteria taking place in 2017, while Arches states it happened in 2015, and Flynn's Cameron and Devon are in college working on a project, when Arches has Cameron and Devon at age 25 and firmly being out of college for at least 3 years. This shows that those routes not only are following a different timeline than Arches but that Cameron and Devon's age is also different dependent on the route/branch of the timeline we are following.

TLDR: I think that Echo's universe is following a massively branching timeline where multiple branches run parallel to one another for a good chunk of time before they diverge off from each other again. Thanks for reading my Thesis on Echo's timeline! :)

Frowst3 years ago

Man it took a while to find this post as I'm still new to this site but holy shit was it worth it!

I assumed that each route was it's own outcome but also giving hints towards what really happened with this group of friends during the week.

Now that I've read through route 65 I agree that Chase's personality does change drastically during each route. And this explains the inconsistencies I kept running in to.

My "focus" had been Flynn almost as a control for the bizarre situations happening (until you get to the end of course).

I tried to collect what we knew as "the facts" and piece together the picture by finding out Chases "real" personality and what choices he would've made if he wasn't possessed. This just broke my heart more for leo when I read "The party" from what it seems to imply.

I know this probably sounds ridiculous now, but it was fun thinking I was getting it. :P

I'll be reading through this story again with this information in mind and will love to check out Tsr and Arches when those are completed.

Thanks for the amazing theory!

Zux3 years ago

Thanks! I'm really glad that you like my theory!

Also I'm new to the comments section for itch.io as well, so I've been trying my best to learn how it works.
Honestly I adore Route 65, as it is what made me like Chase (mainly cause he seems like such a literary nerd in Route 65). It is interesting how it acts as a branching point for what happens to the group as they move forward towards Echo.

I like the idea of what 'really' happened with the group of friends. This theory kinda reminds me of the difference between Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (Higurashi) versus Umineko no Naku Koro ni (Umineko), both are great horror games by the way. These are both stories that appear to loop, however, the cause of the loop and if they actually looped is different. Higurashi repeats the summer of 1983 over and over again and the goal of one the characters is to stop the loop they are stuck in. All loops are equally likely, but they are looking for the 'best' loop where everyone gets a happy ending. Umineko on the other hand shows a series of events in early October of 1986, with two characters arguing over if what happened was due to the supernatural or not. What is interesting about Umineko is that another character joins later from the future, which means there was a definitive set of events that happened and its up to the audience to deduce it based on what they are shown in all the loops.

I think your theory is another good way to look at the story, especially as an alternate to the branching timeline theory I posed. There are some things that are consistent in multiple routes and it brings up the question of why? For example, Duke is found dead in Chase's car in both Leo and Flynn's routes, but SPOILERS [Duke is alive and still an asshole in Arches Build 3].

If we look at it with the one true set of events theory, then Duke being found dead in Chase's car could not have happened. We are also then able to deduce the epilogues for Leo, TJ and Flynn's routes are not part of the true set of events, but aspects of each might be. For example, we see that Kudzu and Micha exists still in town, outside of their respective routes (seen in Flynn's route) so they are a part of the true set of events though it may be different from what we have seen. Another example is that Flynn's aunt is killed in Flynn's route and hinted to have died in Jenna's, plus Leo's route mentions a body count of about 9 people (Likely including Mayor Moore). We also see Duke always tries to accuse Chase of being the cause of the Hysteria in every route (aside from TJ's where the Hysteria doesn't fully set in), so we can assume that Duke definitely targeted Chase.

I think it is fun to look at the game through both theories. The branching timeline theory helps to explain some of the issues/differences that occur between routes, while the one true route theory can be used to deduce what would occur in all routes (even when we are not shown them on that route). At the end of the day, my theory is just that, a theory, so your ideas have just as much weight.

Also I highly recommend Arches and TSR now as they both have been fun to play through with what is currently there, but I understand the preference to wait till its finished.