Post by El-Jo66 in game done and now?

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Thank you guys. It helps a lot to understand the situation to be able to talk about it with other game dev. To add a little something to the conversation I can talk about my experience with Patreon as Majid mentioned it earlier in this thread. My personal experience with Patreon is that I'll probably quit on the 31st of december.

Patreon is an extension of the same popularity contest we're experiencing here (and on other social networks) . If you are talented for that, it would be stupid to stop but as I'm not then I think it would be stupid to continue. I have very few patrons that bring me 15euros/dollars per month and for that little money I find myself in a rather stressfull situation every month because the time used to keep my few patrons content is a precious time lost for my game. I have a day job and the little time that is left to me is for my time consuming hobby, "my second job" : making a game. To have a Patreon is like a 3rd job (a thing that the stupid me didn't know). Probably like a real Youtube channel (I don't have any) or a successful instagram acocunt, it is a job too of it's own. One got to be prepared for that if you expect it to be worth it. It's like a chain :

Step 1. You probably need to be good at marketing your game (social networks, etc...)

Step 2. If you have the step 1, then your game can be popular (I mean popular enough to stay visible even after being kicked out of the "NEW" category)

Step 3. Then you can get a chance to have a Patreon that is worth the time and efforts you'll have to put in it (... aside of your game... and maybe your day job).

Efficient Marketing - Popular game - Worthful Patreon (<---as I said, an extension of the popularity contest)

If think most of us here mess it because we don't have the step one and/or we're not good at it. The truth is that all these steps need skills and as little indies... Let me use a metaphore : As indie game dev, we're certainly terrific players, but a terrific player doesn't make a team to play the game (and win).

Now, of course, there are peolpe that manage to make it. Some fantastic indie game devs that are also good at marketing their game and having worthful if not profitable Patreon. They exist and I'm thankful to them for keeping the dream alive. Sincerely.

Just a few notes as I re-read my post...

1- My 15euros per month on Patreon can't help me because I live in FRANCE where such an amount of money is negligible BUT at the same time they have been a huge psychological support all along. The truth is that I just can't keep up with the scheme of putting something new under the nose of my patrons on a regular basis just o keep them without spoiling the game itself and its experience. The only thing I'm good at is making the game. And that's the only thing I produce. Nothing else.

2 - And of course no, the goal was not to get rich at once thanks to my Patreon. It was just the pursuit of that old dream of the indie game dev... "if I could make just enough momey to even barely replace my day job, I would use all my time to do what I really love". But for me it will have to wait.

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EddGames2 years ago (3 edits) (+1)

si, è proprio quello che ho detto qualche post fa: patreon, kickstarter, youtube, social in generale.. non c'entrano nulla con lo sviluppo del gioco, nel senso che servono competenze diverse ed è un lavoro secondario che per la maggior parte di noi non è qualcosa che vogliamo fare.

è una cosa che ti deve piacere fare altrimenti è troppo stancante, toglie tempo alle cose che vorresti fare, ma la cosa peggiore è che ti distrae, pensare a quelle cose mi toglie ogni entusiasmo, è solo mi distrae..

e mi rattrista anche un po' perché se sei famoso puoi letteralmente fare qualsiasi cosa, se sei sconosciuto puoi fare il gioco più bello del mondo (non è il mio caso) che nessuno saprà mai..

tuttavia il fatto del "marketing fatto in casa" è necessario per farlo bene. con costanza o non otterrai risultati che ti motiveranno a continuare, ma per farlo bene devi essere motivato a farlo, e se non ti piace farlo non lo farai bene.. sicuramente sceglierei di paga qualcuno che lo faccia per me, ma anche quello non è fattibile i costi sono insostenibili..

quindi per me la cosa più sensata da fare è lavorare per fare un buon gioco e poi ottimizzare le cose da fare dopo, e basta. se non guadagno i milioni, significa che farò comunque un gioco migliore lol

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Deleted account2 years ago

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Midnight Spire Games2 years ago(+2)

I noticed a problem: Many, I really mean "the most", stay solo on developing. Why is it that way? There are indie devs who invested months and years into ONE single project. Wouldn't it have been easier when the devs form a group.

I work alone mainly because I don't want to argue or compromise on what I make. Working alone means I can make only what I want to make, and I can make it however I please, without having to convince anyone that it's the right decision. I also want to work at my own pace without other people depending on me, or me having to depend on them.

Unfortunately, working alone is also exhausting and demoralizing, but to me it feels like the only option.

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EddGames2 years ago

yes, to me it's more or less the same thing.

It is true that more people make the job easier, even at the level of motivating each other.

however, it is no longer a question of realizing your specific idea, at least that you are not paying people, but of realizing a group idea. which too can be nice .. but it is already difficult to agree on a single head, let alone that of a group.

alone the level of satisfaction in the end is much higher for me because I realize exactly what I had in mind at the beginning .. maybe the result satisfies only me, but that's the important, lol

as usual it depends on people's goals and what they want to achieve from the things they do ..

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HouseRule2 years ago(+1)

"Unfortunately, working alone is also exhausting and demoralizing,"

Here I am again.

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EddGames2 years ago

Hi Majid,

from what I have read for having succeeded with kickstarter you will have to give yourself a lot to do on a social level, it works if you have a community .. you will have to convince people, find them, do marketing for kickstarter too, I have never tried but I think it is the same as anything else that involves other people .. i'm skeptical here too, lol

however try and then let us know, good luck with the action RPG!

yes people appreciate more the best that today's technology can offer .. it means photorealistic 3D images, 2D makes you think something like 20 years ago for most people and it's a niche thing ..

personally in video games the thing I like most is the immersion in a 3D world and I think it is the same for most of the people, in fact I am thinking of developing something with VR ..

for music I create it myself, I have been making music for almost 20 years and the music / sound part is the easiest for me :)

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Deleted account2 years ago

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EddGames2 years ago (1 edit)

yes I agree, it costs nothing to try, then let us know the experience :)

yes doing photorealistic things takes a lot of time, it's not just about textures and materials or a lot of polygons, the whole scene has to respect the things of reality, it means you have to put a lot of details .. small objects, everything has to look real otherwise it ruins the whole scene etc.

really a lot of time and very difficult, if you work alone you really risk going crazy .. I don't aim for photorealism, let's say that a graphic like ps3 suits me just fine..

here are some photorealistic models I made, it took at least an hour to make them and they are very simple, by the way I am also selling them at the same price as the game. lol

https://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/eddysss

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El-Jo662 years ago (1 edit) (+1)

(sorry, just answering a previous question about music)

For those of us who are not as gifted as Edd, music in our games can be a big problem. It's very time consuming for me because as I don't produce it, I'm constantly searching the piece of music or sound that fits the scene I'm working on. And sometimes I already have it but I've forgotten I had it. The begining of madness, that's what it looks like sometimes...

Now if I analize I would say that :

60% of the music and sound I use come from https://freesound.org/ This site is interesting for the sounds not really the music, as its name suggests. But you can find there some very interesting loops. I think, for us game makers, loops are more useful than a long and complete track. Of course I more than once modify what I find there but just some basic modifications to fit my needs. The site is not sexy but worth a try.

20% are real tracks (sorry if it's not the right term) like the ones you can find on incompetech of the famous Kevin MacLeod. Just saw an interview of this guy 2 days ago. He's very interesting and funny and he is the one who saved most of the content creators of the planet (nothing less) who don't happen to be musicians too.

10% from friends or people I know.

For the rest i sincerely don't know. Each time I find something cool and free I download it even if I don't have a need for it. Sometimes I even buy things but it's very rare and I'm allways deceived by these purchase. All in all that's how over the years and diverse projects I have now a huge collection (but it's never big enough and never will).

Majid, I hope you'll make us a thrilling RPG with good moments of tension. We're all clients for that but you cannot achieve that without the good sound or music so good luck. For the rest, the kickstarer, Patreon etc... good luck too.

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EddGames2 years ago

no need to apologize, any intervention is welcome, indeed thanks for the links :)

yes also here are the free sounds I guess that for the most part they are the same as the other site: https://pixabay.com/

some time ago I also downloaded from a site a library of about 50gb of sound effects, this site gave the torrent and you could use them, I don't remember now what site it was, it wasn't a pirate site but it made professional sounds for big companies so every year he gave some to everyone, does anyone remember it? when I remember I edit this post and insert the link ..

however I ended up deleting them to free up some space because I wasn't using them .. for me it is better to only look for those on sites like the linked ones rather than a giant library where you will use a couple ..

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