Post by Ategon in Please stop "Rate for Rate"-posts

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Again as I said thats a subset of the people getting rates, and sometimes thats not even how they got most of their rates. The bigger offender is the snowball effect that occurs in the games that reach the top of the top rated sort early on.

Also dont quite get what you mean by the last point as it could be two things. If its that the people replying dont actually play the games then thats why you make it so that they must play the game before you give feedback back with them giving feedback on the game page itself as being confirmation that they actually played it. If its that it buries everything else in the forums due to the constant activity then the solution isnt to stop it but to instead have a separate category. A thing a group does in the GMTK jam is has an organized rate swap where you get given 5 games every day from people who entered to rate and give feedback on. This helps remove that from the forums while still having it as an option for people to get noticed (with the 5 a day preventing abuse)

JK50001 year ago

Okay, what often happens is that people write a 'rate for rate'-posts, do usually play a few the first game on the list. This do some people knows, and they are therefor really fast to come with replies to those posts, and by doing this they at least tries to get a lot people to play their games. And I can see that it seem to be working pretty well. But are you number 7 or 8 to come with a replay to the post, then chance is much smaller that they are playing your games.

But this not my main issue, but I don't want a system where people shall beg for ratings/feedback. You are welcome to think it's the way it just is, but I have been in many game jams where this is not an issue. It all about making a culture where everybody understand what a game jam is about, and it should never be about begging for ratings.

Ategon1 year ago (1 edit) (+1)

I mean I don't believe its begging. Begging would be spamming please play my game in every games comment section. Both parties are giving each other feedback on what to improve. Sure you can make the argument its begging because its forcing them to rate your game but the person who made the post has made the decision that they would be rating games and giving feedback and the person replying has as well. Its the same as if both people had the mind set of I will play all games from people who comment on my game which a lot of people in the rate for rates have as well. Just this is a way to guarantee the 20 rates. As the moment this is basically the only way to guarantee that for those that dont get lucky with ctr, dont have much time to commit to ratings, or dont get lucky from the games they choose to give feedback on.

As the mechanics in itch.io exist currently there will always be those that are screwed over by the current system even if they give feedback on others (and for those who cant give feedback that well and can only rely on people to use the random sort, it never works out unless they have a great thumbnail)

The way to stop it would instead give some other way for people to get a guaranteed number of ratings. The system in Ludum Dare is miles better than what exists here and theres absolutely 0 rate for rates because of it. In ludum dare the more good feedback to others you give, and the more games you rate, the more your games gets recommended to others with the things you do having reduced effects the more you do it (so that people tend to get 20-30 ratings and not much more unless they're extremely dedicated with giving feedback or get snowballed). This means you have the community aspect of going around and rating + giving feedback on random peoples games and a lot more people use the random sort because theres a lot less possible risks to doing so

JK50001 year ago

I still see it as begging, but you are of cause welcome to call it something different. I think the main issue is that we are not very good at telling people what a game jam is, and what we as community aspect from you when you take part of a game jam. Often there is a way to big of an focus on the game development part, but not so much on the community/feedback part. And it's not just an issue here, it's also an issue in LD, and most other game jams. It has become more and more a fight to getting attention. This also happens because more and more people do not seem to be playing and given feedback (or at least not very much), and they still expect that others plays their games.

Ategon1 year ago(+1)

thats heading into a bit of a different problem but yeah I agree with you on that one. The marketing is very development focused and instead it should be clearly communicated that its expected that you also check out other games along with that. Currently its limited to 1 line in the brackeys front page and that doesn't even mention the community part, just some information that won't get their game played at all even though it says it will. > "make sure to play a lot of games, so your own game has a higher chance of being shown to others!". If theyre referring to just playing that does nothing, same with rates unless you spam rates and get to most karma. The marketing should instead mention stuff like if you participate in the jam its expected that you go out and leave some feedback on others and there's a chance they return the favor so people who come in see that and can start doing it so there's less risk in random sorting. Marketing and community is a huge part of game development and it should be treated as such