Post by Jon Topielski in Design Discussion: What do you SPECIFICALLY want feedback on?

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Jon Topielski5 years ago

My game is too cryptic.

People get stuck and end up frustrated and lost.

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1. What is the mechanic or element of your game you want feedback on? Be specific!

I would like feedback on where people are getting stuck.

2. What is your goal for the game?

Fun! But also, to get inside the player's head.

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In response to people getting stuck, I added a help section to the description of my game.. but it partially spoils the game so I'm looking for the root cause.

In general, the response to my game has been pretty polarizing with some people loving it and others dreading it.

https://itch.io/jam/gmtk-2019/rate/462903

Crime Dog5 years ago(+1)

First I need to check if I'M stuck and lost.

Is the way to beat the creator to close the tab and stop doing his dirty work?

If so, I get it.

If not, I don't and we can talk about WHY I don't, haha.

Jon Topielski5 years ago (2 edits)

My lord. I never thought someone would actually sit there and mine 50 hashes. Maybe this is a true psychological experiment..

Evidently, you got stuck and didn't make progress.

(Spoiler Alert for others)

The question now is did you see the cryptic_hash message that says "distract_the_creator" and "annoy_the_creator..."? These are meant to hint at the idea that you should hit the Alert button.

If you did see them and didn't hit the Alert button, then that is a problem with the messaging/wording.

If you didn't see them and didn't hit the Alert button, then I need to go back and work on making sure the story progresses by either constantly bombarding the user with hints in the cryptic_hash or interrupting the player somehow to ensure progress is made.

It's possible to get stuck like this if you never bother to look at the cryptic_hash but that isn't the case here since you showed me the 50 hash message. I tried to do a band-aid solution by adding a HELP I'M STUCK section to the game's description but that probably isn't looked at or the solution isn't good enough.

Thank you for the very insightful feedback.

Crime Dog5 years ago(+1)

Ah cool, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

For context, this was in my second playthrough.

So, I did see that message, and I DID hit the alert button, but nothing happened?

For reference I:

Maybe a glitch?

On the too cryptic note, I think all you really need to do here is to have messages hidden in EVERY cryptic hash, not just some.

I actually played the game through twice, and the first time I checked the hash a few times but coincidentally none of the times I checked it did I see a message, so I figured 'eh, guess I was wrong about that'.

Second time I checked the hash literally every time, but I only did that because I'd already failed the first playthrough and was looking really hard for something I'd missed.

Jon Topielski5 years ago

(Spoiler Alert)

Yeah.. so essentially "both" to my last question.. you not only had problems with discovering storyline progression (searching cryptic_hash), but even after discovering the progression you didn't know how to progress (hit alert -> mine hash -> hit alert -> repeat).

This is a HUGE learning for me.

I think I've just learned the value of playtesting before releasing a game, especially if it is a game that requires close attention and secret storylines.

Thank you again. This has been very useful and I really appreciate it.

Crime Dog5 years ago(+1)

No worries Pyrecraft! The tricky thing about playtesting a game like yours is that you almost need a new playtester in the chair every time you make a change!

Failing that, I feel like you just have to make some more affordances and try and widen the successful path through a bit, although it's definitely a tricky balancing act when you're making something deliberately obtuse.

Good luck!

kaesve5 years ago(+2)

I think you could fix the problem of getting stuck with just some ui changes. I would have made the cryptic_hash always be visible and in exactly the same spot. That would make it much easier to detect something is going on in them. You may also want to introduce a way to look at previous sent requests/received hashes, so that the player can read back if it took them a little while to figure out what is going on. I do think it will stay a bit of a niche game, even with a better UI. That's not a bad thing though, you don't have to make something that caters to everyone, and I enjoyed the game :)

Jon Topielski5 years ago

You are so right, I could easily have just made the hashes smaller (to make the message more obvious) and store them with each request, just like I do with each guess. ~_~

Crime Dog5 years ago

That's a great suggestion.

H_Labs5 years ago

I ended up doing the same thing as Crime Dog and spammed the alert button after seeing a message. With your guidance, I restarted after that and completed the game. It had me thinking, so I enjoyed it (& you succeeded with your goal)!

I got stuck because I didn't know where to look for clues. I could look to the narrator/creator for clues, the hashes, the dialogue that was not the narrator, or the incoming messages. The first time I saw the messages in the hashes, I ended up ignoring them because I wanted to brute force the hash (not the smartest decision I've made). Having a fail state where either the hashes (early on) mention using the alert button or the narrator mentions "ignore the messages" or "stop distracting me; only alert me when you've found a match" could help those that get stuck.