Post by redonihunter in My creator name is not searchable

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so I decided to untag Adult but I'll keep the metadata

The tag adult does not do much in this regard. It is only the metadata that counts. You could release a game without any tags and still mark it as nsfw.

There is no inbetween on itch, like certain mature or sensitive content warnings/filters you might see on Steam for example. And the term nsfw is ill chosen anyways, but this is me picking on exact words. No game is sfw, because people would not be allowed to play games at work. I guess is is some US euphemism thing.

The nsfw meaning on itch actually translates to: forbidden for minors, or adults-only. If it were a movie, it would have rating AO, NC17, R, 18+ or something similar.

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hechelion359 days ago (1 edit)

The term was born to refer to a concept that is difficult to define, but easy to understand.

If the content is not appropriate for use or display among your co-workers, it is an easier generalization to interpret.

The term could be "No Safe for Family reunion", "Only For Private Use", etc. But the now famous NSFW ended up becoming popular and today it is understood by the majority of players and developers.

There are many terms that are not literally exact, but are understood.

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redonihunter359 days ago

I believe the term was born, because it just is an euphemism in the cycle of euphemisms to name naughty or adult stuff. Maybe in conjunction with the history of the internet. When it was new, people usually had no computer/internet connection at home, but might have one at work

As long as you use it as such an euphemism, meh, whatever. But if you spell it out, it is useless.

As a tag on itch, the description would read

NSFW, otherwise known as Not Safe For Work. Content that wouldn't be appropriate to be seen by acquaintances walked past your screen.

But this is the tag definition, not the marked as adult metadata requirement definition.

It is very problematic to define something as a thing that is very, very subjective. If you work at an adult toy factory or an actual adult movie studio, what is appropriate to be seen by your qcquaintances? Or what if you work at an elementary school? Could you play a 1st person shooter there?

Also, playing games at work would get you fired in most places. So any game is very unsafe for work. I stand by it. By the literal definition, nsfw is utterly useless. It is also cultural ridden. What might be "appropriate" for your aquaintances to see in the US, might get you in jail in China. What if you visit the site of your companies rival?

Effectifly, nsfw/marked as adult is the 18+ rating here. There are some horror games that have this.

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hechelion359 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

Let's see how I explain myself.

I understand you, the criticism of the word is correct and it is also interesting. The point is not that, but that in reality all our language is created as a social construct.

Many current "tags" are incorrect.

Many people, especially younger ones, if they think of a rogue-like they think of a dodge shooting game that takes place in real time.

As the original game, Rogue is turn-based and on a grid and a rogue-like game should look like "Rogue" and many don't.

Why is the "tag" metroid-vania, if the first castlevania really do not have any element of that genre?

Etc, etc, etc.

Why is the "chair" called "chair"? You can look up the root of the word, but if I tell you "Can you catch me the chair?", you will understand perfectly what I mean and it is because you know what that word means or represents.

Many words we use do not really have a correct literal meaning, but are the product of a popular consensus.

NSFW may not be the most correct word if we analyze it carefully or academically, especially because trying to define these types of games is complex. However, the term as it is currently used, especially in games, makes us quickly realize what type of content is being referred to.

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redonihunter359 days ago(+1)

Ahaa, but here it is you are mistaken, or rather, the how/why is the important detail.

the term as it is currently used, especially in games, makes us quickly realize what type of content is being referred to

Why do people know what it means? Because they have previous knowledge of how other people use it and about the context they see the term used, or because they understand the meaning, from the spelled out situation the letters describe?

I dare day, they can't understand the meaning from the words, because it is an abreviation. They do not know the words to begin their understanding. It is like lol. People see other people use it and grasp the meaning from context. Or because someone taught them. Insert Lot's of Love joke here ;-)

It get's worse, if you look for translations. It is internet slang. People just use the same letters, like said lol.

It has no meaning outside of the internet context. Not that I would be aware of. Was reading a Playboy magazine being called "nsfw" back in the day? It probably was inapropriate, but times can be deceiving, as it apparantly once was not considered sexual harrasment, if one would slap the behind of a female coworker.

If I try to take a step back and imagine a person not knowing the internet. And then I would present to the person a term "not safe for work" as an attribute for a thing. What would that person think it means? A faulty piece of equipment? Harzardous goods? Sub par materials suitable for private use, but not safe for work?

While searching for this, it might also have started as not suitable for work, but with abreviations one can never be sure. People being lazy might have prefered a shorter version with safe instead of suitable. The usually pedantic and thourough people at the wikipedia have nothing to say about the etymology, other than it being internet slang and it being used for links, so you know before you click.

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I do not know where you got the dodge shooter meaning for rogue like. That term has been debated since it's beginning with hardcore fans insisting on some meaning in a literal sense, like you described: being a clone of that rogue game. To my understanding there are two elements to being rogue like nowadays. A random "run". And some sort of permadeath of a customizeable character. If your runs get easier the more you achieved, people even call it rogue lite.

But as you said in a way. Words mean what we make them mean. Even if we use them "wrong". For some euphemisms there even is a cycle, as the euphemism starts getting as offensive as the original word it substituted. Who would have guessed (<- sarcasm).

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hechelion359 days ago(+1)

I say this because many games that have bullet-hell and bullet-dodging mechanics are marked as rogue-like. in contrast to the type of mechanics that Rogue or similar games have.

In any case, the topic is interesting, but I think we have already done enough off-topic in this thread, so I left it here, not for lack of interest.

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redonihunter358 days ago

Agreed.

Certain concepts needed a word and "rogue-like" while being too specific, did cover some of them, so those evolved as a meaning from the word, to the spite of hardcore rogue fans. Slay the Spire is a rogue-like, while not featuring most of the concepts of Rogue. It is the repeating random "runs" that differenciate it. You could have that with a shooter, as 600 games here think they do.

https://itch.io/games/tag-bullet-hell/tag-roguelike ;-)

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bulmabriefs144359 days ago (1 edit)

I was wondering about that. Yeah it didn't really fit the Adult category, but it did need some kind of content warning.

NSFW was a funny way of saying that even if it was your job to playtest video games (that is a reality for some people), if someone walked by to THAT game, they might think you were goofing off and not playing videogames.

So my main remaining question is if there is any way for the other games I have to show up. Because as I say, last I checked, I search my own profile for my other games when offline. I could search specifically by game name, but I imagine someone wondering what other games I do being unable to find me.

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redonihunter359 days ago

but it did need some kind of content warning

There is no such thing on itch, that I would know of. Not in the sense, that there is systematic support for such a thing.

You either have minor-restricted games or not. And if you do, your account is "nsfw". Wich means to appear in search and browse, you need to have be logged in and specifically activate "Show content marked as adult in search & browse" in settings. I do not know if there is a statement, why an account get's marked as nsfw, but that is what happens. Maybe because the nsfw game will be linked to from your profile.

They could use better terms for all that. Here they call it adult. But internally it seems nsfw.

Anyways, if you want to have some sort of non mandatory content warning, for whatever reason, you need to do that in your game description. Better yet, at the start of the game, if it is something that comes unexpeted. Like flashing lights. Or having a horror gore game that presents like a fluffy goodfeel kid game. Oh, and actual adult games do often sport their own content warnings (or advertisment).

(The nsfw marking is mandatory in those cases where it, well, where it is "nsfw", whatever is nsfw)

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bulmabriefs144356 days ago

So basically, the short version is, all other games are screwed and there's very little I can do about that. Oh well.

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redonihunter356 days ago

Huh?

So wait a minute.

Is the game in question an "adult" game according to acceptable use on itch or is it not?

And if it is not, can you not just change the metadata back to being non adult?

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bulmabriefs144356 days ago (6 edits)

It's NSFW according to me. I marked it as NSFW figuring to err on the side of caution. My issue is that this one game is clicked as NSFW under metadata, therefore my entire profile shows up like the picture above. There isn't a "separate games are separate games" approach to profiles. Yes, I suppose I could change it back? But then I figure acceptable use might later harass me about it. Ah okay, you talked me into it. If acceptable use complains about it later, do they give me notification that I can properly modify it? Or is it abruptly just delisted? That's the sort of thing I'm concerned about, some sorta scary mod action. Like, being away from itch.io for a year and finding all my games were gone because mods were like "Oracle of Tao has moaning sounds in it."

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redonihunter356 days ago

Do you have naked genitalia shown in the game or at least boobs? Some gory mauled human bodies? No? Your game is sfw!

Look here for a "sfw" game with some disclaimer example you can adapt for your moaning.

https://teamsalvato.itch.io/ddlc

And I bet you will find more than moaning in these sfw games tagged under romance. (be sure to turn adult games off in settings. Now that you are no longer a creator with an adult game, you can turn that off. Creators with adult games can not turn that off. You are visible again, should you not have noticed.)

https://itch.io/games/tag-romance

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redonihunter356 days ago

Acceptable use is a figure of speech. I did not search extensivly for any definition that itch put forth, what must be marked as adult.

But as long as your game is not intended as a porn game or an explicit horror game, it most likely is non adult. Just imagine what rating it would have, if it would have an official rating. If it would be 16 or less, chances are, it is "non adult".

Of course, cultural values are different everywhere. In Europe, naked boobs would get you to maybe 16, depending on context, and violence will quickly get you to 18. In US it is the other way round. Violence seems ok for kids, but beware the occasional naked pixel bosom.

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