Any new news? Looking forward to this one!
ab50721
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A member registered Jan 04, 2020
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Well thank you - it was a challenging "adventure", but well worth it in the end. I hope to acquire good copies of the famicom Uninvited and JP GBC Deja Vu 1&2, but I doubt that's gonna happen. Either or, I am pleased for sure :)
Shadowgate is one of the only memories I have from when I was around 5 years. I got picked up from school, went to my grandmas, went into my younger uncle's room and asked him to try.
He guides me to the 3rd room and is like "DONT FORGET THE BOOK" - then I obviously die and he laughs his rear off and admits he only did that because he wanted me to go away. Classic.
Regarding GrahfVenture - you've more than earned it. These are the new generation ICOM games and I bet even the original creators themselves would be (if not already have been) impressed :)
Please do let me know if you do release physical copies of the games too - I do mean what I said - I think any avid ICOM/MacVenture fan would agree that the new generation GrahfVenture games are totally worthy to sit next to the originals in any situation.
Also - are you possibly planning to accept any pre-orders for the 3rd installment? I'd really like to secure a license-to-play -- even if it's a bit before the game comes out :)
Take care and enjoy your weekend!
Oh and one more thing I think you'd appreciate (just so you know how avid of a fan I am of these games. Don't worry - not a crazy person LOL - moreso just a lifelong collection goal because I grew up with these games).
Here's my original ICOM shrine. All games are brand new/factory sealed (the Famicom versions were never shrink-wrapped but were also never played either).
You know, if you ever did boxed versions of the trilogy once complete, i'd pick one up for the collection -- GrahfVentures are worthy to share the same space in my opinion :)
Have a great evening!
Ah - I think I am starting to pick it up now!
So you leave the circus and crash your car on the way home.... Uninvited then begins. I almost feel bad for the character if that's the case XD.
I am glad to help if I could. It is the absolute least I can do in return for your team's work on these amazing adventures (I finished Infested tonight again -- actually did forget a few things too but I made it through and what a gem as always :) )
For your 3rd installment, if you do open any sort of pre-orders, please count me in. I don't know if you have an email distribution list I could sign up to, but, im totally in.
So, I must say -- I am playing through infested again and I think there is one very vital aspect that goes unnoticed quite a bit that I highly appreciate the effort put into.
The movement screen transitions actually adjust to where you're moving. Like when I moved from the viewing area to the door before the blood monster, move one showed a straight transition upwards and then it showed a leftward transition before releasing the player back to the interactive gaming screen. This is exactly how the character would have moved and it's a neat little "polish" so-to-speak :).
I just had to share. Even the original 3 MacVentures didn't go to that level of attention to detail :). I may not have the exact screen-movement-direction nailed down, but just wanted to let ya know I see what you did there :D
Moreso THANK YOU for now two amazing experiences with as best of preservation of the original feel as possible.
I have looked for other games like these online in the past -- never have I found anything (including one that costed $1.99 and totally sucked due to being highly incomplete in my opinion) like these. I am actually doing a runthrough of Infested now. That one will always ring home to me and I think will always be my true favorite because it is the first game of true quality I had ever found that put so much effort into preserving the true "MacVenture/ICOM adventure" feel. I showed one of my closest family members that day and they were as shocked as I was. We both ended up playing and completing both it and Spectacle and he even asked me if I heard anything about the 3rd game the other day :). I am super excited to say the least and looking forward to whenever it comes out :)
Spectacle's conclusion was TRICKY indeed and made you think, but, there is not a single aspect of it that one couldn't figure out with some critical analysis and that was a really good time figuring that out.
Truthfully the only overly odd puzzle to me was the one to complete to cross the desert for the first time. It seems the indication was to speak a certain dialogue based on as written. If interpreted that way and you reach the desert, nothing happens. In these cases, maybe a little hint you're using an item incorrectly or something would have been a little clearer is all. Suggestion only -- doesn't change a single iota of fantasticness of this game!
The story behind the creation of Spectacle is pretty awesome - it's interesting where inspiration can come from sometimes :). I think the tie-ins of the circus and other world worked perfectly and made for a much more expansive and intriguing game for sure.
Admittedly, I did miss one thing and had been wondering. I did recall this game was an unofficial prequel to Uninvited, but I think I missed some of the connections. I got the gem, the creature and an ending gesture (nice touch and references). The one thing I didn't understand was the location tie-in. Are you saying the circus itself is actually supposed to be located in Scotland?
/edit - final thought - you should charge a couple bucks for your 3rd game honestly. The quality you and team deliver has been proven and I'd gladly pay a small entry fee for the 3rd installment :)
Sure that's fine.
So - to reach the oasis I actually had to do two things in addition to removing the curse you mentioned before.
I had to actually use the examine command on the makeshift "map" within the vicinity of the above event and then also make sure I used the examine command on the "story telling" art in said same vicinity. The path then opens with no issues and works perfectly as specified in the aforementioned makeshift "map"
Otherwise - you die one move before being able to reach it no matter what you do.
When I finally reached the destination, I didn't save and reloaded to test this theory -- before doing the above, upon reloading, I would die one move too soon as mentioned.
Once complete, reached again no issues.
Hope this helps!
After figuring this out, I have since finished the game, btw. Once again a fantastic conclusion (and admittedly a pretty tricky ending sequence that really made me think about past experiences, uses of certain things and even how they functioned when incorrectly used and causing death instead). Skydoor anyone?
You guys are talented!!
One other thought,
Was this a bug fixed at some point in revision history?
Im not sure if im playing the most current version.
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OK - this is weird - edit.
I got to the oasis eventually. There is more that needs to be done other than freeing the Vasir before the road opens and you can make enough moves before dying in the desert to reach it.
Im not sure if these extra steps were intended (not listing here for spoiler purposes), but if you want to shoot me a private message, I can explain further.
Hrm - yea I did that but I still keep getting lost. I've tried all sorts of inverted directions as well.
Question -- do the "curves" in the path lines mean something I should be paying more attention to?
Otherwise, idk, I have tried from both entrances of the desert following the route based on both the compass and also just using the directions as they look at face value.
I know I am missing something, I just do not know what, yet.
"For our third game we we're actually hitting the middle ground and doing a hi-fi 8-bit soundtrack" -- WOOHOO - you are actually doing a 3rd game? Nice!!! That's great news. I look forward to it. You should look into boxed versions for this soon-to-be trilogy - id pay to add them to my NES/Famicom/GBC macventures shrine I have collected over the years.
The idea for the soundtrack does sound good and I am very, very looking forward to it's release. This is cool stuff. Thanks for sharing! I won't bug you for a release date -- I'm sure you must get that enough already.
If I could borrow a moment of your time for a slight nudge -- I seem to have forgotten a lot from my first playthrough. I have reached the "Vasir" and am following the desert "map" to try and find the special water that was indicated in the painting story, but I keep dying. Is it possible I am too far ahead and not ready for this section yet?
Have a good rest of the weekend! :)
No doubt! These types of games leave a lot of room for comical aspects.
Just the way it's done and the perfectly timed CRASH splits my side LOL. Awesome stuff.
Overall, the attention to detail to replicate the ICOM/MACventures experience is spot on. This is one hell of a game (some puzzles are a little questionable in terms of ability to figure out on one's own, but, that too was the nature of those types of games).
Massive kudos overall -- the only feedback I could possibly give would be if there ever is a 3rd installment of these types of games, the modernized music (while the tracks themselves are AWESOME nonetheless) doesn't fit the game type.
Maybe go with infested style music next time, or even possibly run the modernized tracks through an 8-bit sampler and offer a switch option between modern and classic-style?
Idk - just my 2 cents that probably many wouldn't agree with. I personally played Shadowgate 2014 through all 3 difficulties with the NES music and it was such a better experience in my view.
Enjoy the weekend!
Oh and my mistake - there was one other comment.
I really did enjoy the underground piece, but I actually thought that puzzle was a bit too easy. The time is ample for the size of the area and the traps are easy to avoid if you pay close attention. Obtaining your light source is simple once you understand the mechanics of the game, so it just didn't seem like much of a challenge to best that one.
Well - I decided I'd give it a third and final go because honestly, after serious thought, your work deserved me to at least finish it after getting this far and how good the quality of the actual game was overall. I ended up finishing it with minimal hints moving forward.
After the rock wall, the puzzles got a bit better again - here's some final thoughts for you.
--- Awesome Final Puzzles -----
The polearm puzzle was actually very, very good and I love how it takes ideas from Shadowgate and expands upon then to actually make certain un-useful things useful ;) - i'm sure you know exactly what I mean.
One of my favorite puzzles in the game honestly was the lamp puzzle. I really like those types where the answer that seems obvious is always wrong and you have to think about how you, as a person, would introduce another factor into the obstacle you are facing. Fantastic touch on that one.
The last puzzle was really neat too - I liked how you made us think about the resources available to us and that many of them can have certain uses in the given situation. One thought on this - maybe some sort of message that the intended effect took place to reach it. I thought I crashed the game the first time I triggered it.
Lastly - love the direct homage to Uninvited (will always love that game even if the puzzle system was abysmal for the sole fact that the ghost lady scared the living crap out of me when I was like 8 XD). That was hilarious and yet (plus, the extra surprise if you do the wrong thing is both awesome and suggestive if you are really paying attention and examining the things you find).
---Puzzles I think Need Work---
The Xspot puzzle was a little odd I will admit - not sure where you would have known to apply that one outside of an educated guess. Once I knew where it was used, it was very logical once translated through earlier hints, but If there was a hint as to where to begin, I missed it.
The grey key - probably would have benefitted from more area hints. Accessing what you need is pretty obscure and again, no hints are given until you examine the correct pixels. A nudge would have been useful here.
The Gold/Silver puzzle - After using a hint it sort of made sense, but there just wasn't enough guidance or hints that I found. I knew the general gist of what the thing was, but I don't think I would have ever known what to do to determine the answer without a slight hint.
Overall, the majority of the puzzles were pretty good it seems. There were a handful that did not make sense as i've specified previously, but as others have suggested in other comments, an in-game hint system that may give secondary, vague clues for these situations may completely fix that problem. Or, perhaps additional clues written in are necessary in the form of a better Exam system. It was far too limited in this game - no question. You're the developer, so i'll leave that to you - just thoughts on my end.
BUT, after playing through in it's entirety, I think it's fair to give the game a slightly upgraded review based on everything in total. It still isn't the caliber of puzzle structure of Infested, but it's not awful as a whole and as I said originally - with some fine tuning on your puzzle structure, your third game is gonna be an absolute smash (and I surely hope you sell it this time - we've benefitted enough from your time for free :) )
------ Final Scores ------------
The game looks, sounds and functions amazingly. These things cannot be overlooked. While puzzle structure is more important than anything (and Infested hit the bulls-eye with this one), these things are important too.
One other thing - as amazing as the soundtrack is (and I loved it, please don't get me wrong) - Infested preserves the ICOM experience even further with the 8-bit music (another absolute gem). Taking both of these into account:
Infested - 10/10
Spectable - 8.5/10
Take care and thanks again for listening to my feedback.
Oops - I think I somehow I deleted my previous comment on accident. My apologies and feel free to restore it if you can - I tried to click "Edit", which now has now functionality :(
Well hang a on sec though - I'm definitely not trying to make you feel bad or anything - everything I said originally stands and this is not meant at all to be a hit at your skills. Yes, two major puzzles so far seem to have extreme flaws surrounding the clues leading up to them, but that doesn't negate from the rest of the game and your hard work. It just shows that you made your first attempt at a MUCH larger-scale game this time around (and were mostly very successful) and maybe there are some kinks that need a little fine tuning in your puzzle designing process - that is all. I would also maybe give some more info when examining things too (i.e. Evil Stitch and the Fruit - both areas had the clues if you were looking/examining). The starter page listed above tells you to rely on "Exam" alot, but Exam very rarely gives you anything that really helps unless you already saw the oddity yourself before even examining it. Pixelated games like the ICOM (and ICOM-inspired) adventures should be very careful relying on that in my opinion.
You haven't disappointed anyone if you take a look at the overall product you've created. You guys kicked a** with the game interface, soundtrack, extra features to make it more user-friendly, etc. Your game "engine" is beautiful, hands down. Every aspect of the game outside of what I've said about puzzles is beautiful to be honest.
And again and always keep this in mind, these are my opinions only - you did this for us for free and you went WAY above and beyond compared to the basic interface that Infested had. It's just the wandering in circles with no hints from examining things, etc. - there's a little too much of that in this one.
Sorry if my previous comment came off that way to be honest - text is hard to convey sometimes (this is a great example of why I never, ever handle personal topics of high tension via text either), but don't feel bad at all. I've simply played a TON of these games (I finished Shadowgate Re-imagined on both Apprentice and Journeyman without a walkthrough - i haven't played the hardest level yet), so I just have a lot of memories of ICOM-esque puzzle structure for comparison.
/Edit - the puzzle I was talking about was the rock wall. There is absolutely no way I can see to have figured that out without basically clicking every pixel on the screen. This is a key area where "Exam" fails heavily. Unless you click the exact spot intended, you'd never know you're doing anything wrong since the spell also works on the incorrect answer as well. Leaves the player believing the incorrect answer is the correct answer once they find something else which is not actually there.
Ended up figuring out how to get the fruit (can't believe I didn't think how before-hand. There was a very clear clue in the general area).
Evil stitch is a pain in the a** though XD, definitely gonna need to think about this one.
After that one puzzle, it definitely got a lot better again. The subtle (even vague but still clear if you pay attention) hints are back and it feels much more appropriate in my opinion :)
/edit - aha. So evil stitch can be defeated. Nice one there. That was clever and took a minute but again, paying close attention pays off :D
Well, thanks for being receptive and respecting the point I was trying to make :)
Overall though - this community loves your games - including me. It's rare you see such dedication to re-creating those classic games with brand new content in such a sharp way and clever way (and holy cow, the Spectacle soundtrack is catchy indeed - that overworld theme especially. Amazing stuff). I must admit, at first I was slightly turned off by the lack of 8-bit music, but the soundtrack is just so good it totally overshadows that and fits perfectly.
From the bottom of my heart - thanks for all you do and I only hope anything i've suggested is helpful at some point.
Also, I did read a little below - interesting. I've been struggling to get the fruit as well and I thought I cleared the monastery already (maybe I didn't though - I still get flattened like a pancake when trying to go over the balcony ledges). No spoilers please :) - i've decided to give it another run and want to try and figure this one out - there has got to be something I missed because all of those puzzles were really neat in my opinion (especially the levers).
Anywho - hope you have a great weekend!
Thanks for responding! I did end up gathering at least the part in the book from another family member who is also quite impressed with your work :)
Yes, that is the puzzle (wasn't sure how much could be said in public comments) and I think your response does help put into perspective the kind of feedback I was looking to provide. To some, that may seem logical, but especially in ICOM-type games, that's kind of misleading. With the game having a number of Shadowgate-esque spells (and Shadowgate being famous for spells within a book - especially the NES version), the hint seems to indicate that this is literally a spell you need to determine how to learn/chant to prevent dying/getting lost in the desert (this was also loosely implemented in Uninvited when using the spell to get out of the maze you get stuck in). Logically, when one tries to pick up the book, use the "spell thingy" on it etc. (trying to limit spoilers - sorry LOL, couldn't think of a better vague name), if that's not the intent, then the ICOM game nature was usually to give at least some very (and possibly VERY) vague hint along the lines of "What you think this means may not be the real meaning" or perhaps another item (such as one of the scrolls) being a little more descriptive in what to do next- something like that. Something that tells the astute player that they really should be paying better attention to the meaning behind this item. Instead, the response is very stock such as "what did you expect", or "you don't need that here" or something.
Like I was saying in my previous post, I just feel these types of games should never leave a player with almost no choice but to use a walkthrough because of vagueness (the scrolls and other lore in the game didn't help with this piece either because they refer to them solely as the Southern Lands - parody that to Deja Vu II when you need to go to the mafia's laundromat. The direction to reach it given in the game is the literal and only direction you need to take - no others). Most important reason for this in my opinion is because you only get to experience them as intended once and that experience is extremely watered down when the answer has to be given to you. There are many players out there who are vehemently against walkthroughs who may end up feeling the same.
The reason I say these things is nothing other than to help out and share my opinions, so please always know it's in complete friendliness. You have a great talent for making these types of games and I think if the puzzle system met somewhere in the middle of Infested and Spectacle, you would probably have something you may even be able to sell at this point (I know I'd buy it). You've proven the quality of your work overall - I honestly wondered why this game was free itself ;)
If you're done with this conversation, not a problem at all - I just hope maybe some of what I said makes sense and helps when designing your next awesome adventure. Take care!
Before continuing, I will give you all lots of credit in general. This is a well constructed game overall with a great soundtrack and mostly solid content. I will always have a place in my heart for these types of games and please don't take any of this as anything other than constructive criticism - the overall quality of stuff you put out is very good and I hope you keep going in the future.
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With that being said, once you get the yellow key and move onto the next part of the game (which will remain unnamed to prevent spoilers - the devs will know what I am talking about), it becomes completely illogical. The "hint" provided in the piece of reading material you find along your way is not indicative one single bit of how you're actually supposed to apply it. It's not a tune or sound when it comes to to apply it in-game, so why say it is, or even act as if the player can use it in that fashion? Also, how does one logically die in said area in nighttime conditions...? The directional "hint" given is completely irrelevant as well, as traveling in that direction will always bring death because it's a multitude of directions in a specific order (with limited chances and forced back to start each time), not just one as the hint indicates.
This brings back lots of memories of puzzles like "throw spider at dead butler with no hint - just use until something works after 75 deaths" from Uninvited.
That really did turn me off to the game honestly, because as much as I love Uninvited, I loathed the handful of completely ridiculous and illogical puzzles in that game. Puzzle games should be winnable without walkthroughs or obscenely cryptic hints. The puzzles previously were very tough in many cases, but none of them were like this which is why I still had the determination to keep trying and got through them all until now. Hints so cryptic that they will require a walkthrough in most player's cases should never be a necessity in games like this, as you only truly get to play them as intended once.
I may pick it back up again in the future, but that's gonna be it for me for now. That type of gameplay isn't engaging - it just makes you lose interest very quickly. All of the others puzzles were challenging but fair. If this is an indication of how the game ends, it's gonna be tough to find the motivation to finish it.
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My honest, overall opinion (hey - this is the kind of feedback you guys ask for) is that this game is solid, but missed the mark in this very vital way. I think you did so much better in terms of a well constructed puzzle game overall with Infested. It may not have been as flashy or have as nice of a soundtrack (fantastic soundtrack in Spectacle, by the way - especially the outdoors track. Catchy stuff!), but the puzzles clues made sense (even if slightly confusing to begin with).
I'd probably give the following number scores to each game.
Spectacle - 7/10
Infested - 10/10
As I said originally though - don't stop! I'm one person sharing one opinion and not everyone will approve of everything you make. Your attention to detail and quality productions I've seen so far will ensure I will be interested in the next game you create. I just wish some things had been done differently in Spectacle - it started off amazing and then lost it's spark rather quickly for a player like me who's not interested in needing a hint system to beat the game.
Cheers!