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LocJAM 6 community » Community help

Rating other teams' entries

A topic by GrueneHexe created Apr 15, 2024 Views: 633 Replies: 21

Viewing posts 1 to 5

GrueneHexe221 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

Hello all,

please bear with me in case this has already been explained somewhere else, but I wasn't able to retrieve the information. This morning I started playing another team's localisation and wanted to rate it, but apparently I cannot:

"You are unable to rate this project because you have not submitted your own entry. You can leave a comment below though."

Is there a way for team members to vote, or is it only the person that submitted the translation, that can rate other teams' entries? Doesn't this reduce the possibilities of having a sufficient number of votes in the end, especially for some languages?

Personally, I would even be in favour of a "VotingJam", so that any person that happens to play one of our beloved little creations may be granted a vote.

What do you think? Have a lovely day,

wulfilalice221 days ago

Along that line, I was wondering if I can add my team members as co-authors of our project, if they make accounts, and if that would allow them to rate other entries on their own.

LocJAM221 days ago (1 edit) (+1)

> Is there a way for team members to vote
Yes, voting is open to submitters & contributors.

> I would even be in favour of a "VotingJam"
People getting competive was the main reason there were no events for three years.
Please leave a kind word on the entries you like but competition is a side of the jam I'm not interested in expanding.

GrueneHexe221 days ago(+1)

Thank you so much for your reply. I do understand what you mean and I am happy to hear that the idea behind the LocJam is spending some joyful time together and not to prevail on one another. I fully agree and thank you again for giving us this opportunity.

I had a look around to see how we can add all team members to the account who actually submitted our work, but could not succed yet. The group's name is BreakingSword, could you possibly look into this, whenever you have a spare minute? Did we miss something when we first joyned the Jam? Can we add the members afterwards?

Thank you in advance,

Crystalwarrior221 days ago

Contributors can't seem to vote, only me as I made the jam entry :(

apicici221 days ago(+1)

If I remember correctly from the last time I participated in a jam, if the contributors joined the jam and you add them as admins on the submission, they should be able to vote.

Crystalwarrior221 days ago

wait if they didn't join are they screwed then? cuz I forgot if people clicked "join"

apicici221 days ago

I'm not sure, check if adding them as admins works.

Crystalwarrior221 days ago(+1)

yah they're both admins and collaborators :v

localocos221 days ago(+1)

how do i add other contributors as admins?

Gnou221 days ago(+1)

Go to your game's edit page, then in the dashboard, go to More > Admins

Dominik Langer (German)221 days ago(+1)

Personally, the competitive side has always been the thing that's been drawing me to this. I feel like rating the "competition" doesn't really make it better, but worse, because people would arbitrarily rate the projects of others worse. I could give everyone just 1 star for instance for no reason, and I'd also have to play 7 different German versions to accurately rate something, so I guess, I won't rate anything, because I simply don't have the time to do so, which is kind of sad. But differences in opinion, I guess. It was still fun working on it. I may link it to my friends just to test it out if they want to, but I doubt it. Which severely limits the range of this jam. And seeing how LocJam opened the door to me (winning 1 or 2 times and getting to visit agencies in Berlin) I think some competition wouldn't hurt to actually help young and aspiring translators get into it as well. We certainly need those. :)

LocJAM221 days ago(+7)

That was really another era.

As the description says, the new LocJAM is all about creativity, discovery and collaboration.

Voting isn't here to declare a winner, it just helps surfacing interesting entries slightly higher in the listing.

There's no system to game, because there's no prize to win.

I think your point has merit, and there are positives and negatives for each approach, but I've always wanted to run a jam, not a contest.

It was on the very name after all. 😄

Crystalwarrior220 days ago(+1)

how will the results of the voting be announced? Will it be listed by language, overall, or no winner announced period?

I just realized there's nothing stating a winner will be announced for the jam anywhere on the main page so if this is about creativity, discovery and collaboration then I question why have the rating system in place at all?

I think Dominik raises a good point where rating anything other than 5 stars is already seen as anti-collaborative and bad. For example even if I feel the entry is not perfect/flawed in some way I absolutely do not want to rate it anything less than 5 stars cuz I risk just looking like a dick for it, even if my goal is to criticize the entry and point out flaws while also listing what I liked about it. Therefore I just end up leaving a comment anyway.

Perhaps for the next jam, just don't have rating at all! Encourage people to comment and leave their constructive feedback without any need to introduce any competitive element, cuz in this jam it was confusing how winners would be chosen - and if there would be winners at all :)

LocJAM220 days ago(+2)(-1)

I never mention winners because there are none.

When you see the entries now, they are ordered randomly. In two weeks time, the list will be ordered by score.

The voting phase is just a way to surface the most interesting entries and have people discuss about them.

I could easily skip voting altogether (the option is there) and leave the jam unranked, but I feel it would be a net loss.

Sorting really helps! Most visitors don't want to trudge through random broken entries. And I think it's fun for participants to check around and compare them.

So just enjoy it if you want, and vote how you see fit. Keep in mind that most entries get no score at all, so even a low score will still increase visibility.

I will think how I can convey the message that voting is about curation but it seems a shame to remove it.

After all, I guess you wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for this extra bit of fun?

Crystalwarrior219 days ago (1 edit)

Well it isn't fun for the possibility of not receiving any votes in spite of rating other entries because a thought in my mind is we'll be buried if other teams don't figure out how to vote on other entries 🙃

the karma system on itch is also designed for the purpose of allowing every entry to get its fair share of attention while also letting other teams know that voting on other teams is a good thing and will increase their karma.

Sorting by score at the end already declares winners - having the highest score in your respective language bracket is already a "win", because it is a way to rate the entries. Such a rating system is already a quantifiable way to measure "quality" - even if it necessarily doesn't actually dictate as such.

I agree that voting on other entries is fun. But I fully disagree the voting system as a whole is fun because I have to deal with anxiety if my entry will be voted on at all (which ISN'T FUN!!!), and I only have to rely on my language bracket to be able to do so, and they must play the same game they already know start to finish to be able to even rate, and it ends up in a large mess where I wish it was about the substance of the comments and reviews instead and not about voting so I could at least send it to my friends and family to leave a good word and not bother with the fact that their opinion is "lesser" because they're forbidden from voting.

The karma system is specifically designed for this issue and I'm curious on your reasons why you're not using it.

I also want to be blunt that these are all choices you made for this contest. These are systems that encourage specific behaviors and our entire team is actually depressed because of the way the winner situation was handled, the lack of communication on the scoring system, no tutorial on how to do it, and the fact that contributors CANNOT VOTE (despite being stated elsewhere that they should, I'm the only one in our 8 person team who can even rate entries).

I think the 2 week period to judge other entries is a good idea. But the voting system itself is inherently competitive and runs against the core of the contest you stated. It really sours the mood and if the score system was removed, replaced with "judge other entries, leave a comment, entries will be sorted by karma during the judging period" means that the process of judging and reviewing entries would've been the encouraged behaviour instead, rather than scoring a randomized list of entries.

Despite this I'm still thankful for this jam, it was extremely fun to participate in when I didn't have to think about the score system or anything related and I had more fun commenting and reviewing other entries that I could understand in my own language :)

LocJAM219 days ago(+2)

Again, I actually like how things are set up now. Nothing blunt about that 😄

My concern with the karma system and other itch solutions is that most visitors just can't read most entries.

No much point in showing me a random selection of Chinese translations if I can't judge them.

But I promise to look into the matter, since it seems to matter much to you.

As for voting, did you add the team members as admins?

My understanding is that you just need to do that to allow everyone to vote.

Crystalwarrior219 days ago

Yep, my entire team is admins, I even checked the "display team as contributors" but they still run into this: "You are unable to rate this project because you have not submitted your own entry. You can leave a comment below though"

LocJAM219 days ago (2 edits) (+1)

Anyone else has the same issue? It may be worth checking and telling itch if it is a bug.

Heads up for others reading this: that same message ("You can't vote because you didn't submit an entry") will display if you try to vote your own entry, but that's misleading. You can actually vote the other entries, just not yours. (I guess itch didn't bother writing a separate message)

STAR WORDS218 days ago(+2)

We tried to vote as admins/contributors and we did not encounter this kind of issue

Rike.Brodersen218 days ago(+2)

I was able to rate other peoples' submission, but got a similar warning when on the page of my own project ("You are unable to rate this project because you have not submitted your own entry. You can leave a comment below though.")

LocJAM212 days ago (2 edits) (+1)(-2)

So, I asked around and thought about the matter and -for future jams- I decided to replace the current voting/recommendation system with a list of recommended entries picked by myself.

As a contest, we want to reward creativity and originality and the current system allows that in a rather transparent way,
While most participants understand it for the little bit of fun it truly is, it is true that having any ranking at all sends out an unclear message.
Therefore, for the future I will create a jury of one (myself), check out the most interesting entries (either through creativity or positive comments collected) and pick ten, which will be posted as recommended.
It will be clearly less transparent and arguably less fun, but should be a good compromise between keeping everyone positive while giving occasional visitors a curated list of entries.

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LocJAM 6

Rating other teams' entries