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Why are people ignoring me on this?

A topic by Norsaken created Jun 14, 2019 Views: 1,242 Replies: 9
Viewing posts 1 to 5

Okay. I'm getting a little tired of this. It's been a month, and no one has answered my question about whether a wallet feature will exist someday. I gave my reasons why I am in favor of one, and no one answered. No one even gave me good reasons why it shouldn't exist. I don't like doing this, as it seems like cheating, but I asked for answers, and NO ONE helped out. Let's face it, PayPal sucks, and there's chaos over what to do about it.  This could be tested for a short time, similar to the bank account direct transfer, and could help fix the PayPal problem a little. Has Itch.io even tried it? I went and poured rational arguments, and my emotions over what I considered to be a problem, into my post, and NO ONE CARED.

My original post:

I think there should be a wallet feature that allows you to directly use money you have from your game sales to purchase stuff on Itch.io.

I am 16, I have no credit card or bank account. So, no, I cannot send funds to either of these. I also develop games alone, and hope to someday purchase tools to help me make better ones.

I don't get why everyone's like "That's not important enough to add," etc, etc. This site is open to anyone above the age of 13. Didn't anyone think that the PayPal requirement might make it hard for developers who are too young to get a credit card to get new materials, many of which are right here on Itch?

Firecat said something like this might be incompatible with credit cards, PayPal, etcetera. Okay, how about having it as an optional alternative.

Please comment with opinions, ideas on other ways to do this, and anything I haven't thought about. And if any Itch staff read this, please  consider what I'm saying. I'd really consider it a boon if this could be added.

EDIT: Just looked up GameJolt, which uses a system similar to what I describe. Their system is exactly identical to the Itch payout system, except you can use funds to purchase stuff. The two systems are so similar that I'm not sure why Itch hasn't at least given it a try yet. And firecat also said it might be illegal. I've looked into VAT and other taxes. Gamejolt collects it in a very similar way to Itch, and no problems for them. If you see this, firecat, I want you to give me examples. I don't think there are any laws that would make this illegal.

End original post.

I realize now that having a wallet as an optional alternative to all other systems isn't feasible, but seriously,  it really is almost identical to the current holding-then-payout system; you just can't go ahead and use funds.

Other people have asked about something like this, and they, too, have been studiously ignored. For them and for me, I respectfully ask for your comments. People being ignored categorically like this on the forums is a real problem, and it doesn't do Itch any favors. I want answers. Please help me out here. Also, please excuse me if the feedback tag isn't appropriate for something like this. I wasn't quite sure, but this is a sort of feedback. The tag might be more intended for design problems, though.

The problem is Gamejolt doesn't seem to answer the tax infomation. itch.io is Marchant of Record and people can go pay taxes themselfs which can open more to opportunitys. The only infomation I got from Gamejolt are from developers asking questions:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/55d2qg/why_does_gamejolt_require_i_fil...

https://gamejolt.com/f/some-questions-about-manual-marketplace-approval/56267

This is what i think is happening is Gamejolt is not doing anything but letting people file tax return. In their TOS, Cookies and Privacy it is stated they collect infomation to give it to Payment Processers. This is cofusing since this doesn't establish relationship with developer to payment processers, only to gamejolt. In my blog i recorded everyone's but gamejolt responds to how taxes are handled:

http://unknowns-blog.mozello.com/comments-and-reviews/params/post/1555877/basic-...

only itch.io is the one offering  a merchain of record, everyone else is following the "handle taxes yourself". So i do not know what gamejolt is doing and i can not confirm anything about their wallet system being with laws because i never seen a company just hand out tax forms to developers and the company only one working with payment processers.

Thank you for providing a little info that I didn't find in my research. I had thought Gamejolt operated the same way, but that "We handle all taxes including VAT" bit on their site was a mite misleading; I clearly misunderstood it. Thank you for commenting.

(1 edit)

You mention briefly at the top that ACH transfers were "tested for a short time", are they no longer an option? I was under the impression you could get payouts handled that way if you contacted support. I know you said you don't have a bank account, and I don't know anything about you (or even what country you're in), but I'll point out that most people in the U.S. do have bank accounts, including many minors (generally its a joint account with a parent or guardian but still). Your position seems to be that you want to sell things for money online, but you don't have any way of receiving funds electronically. It's not your fault that you're in this situation, but you should recognize that it's not an easy problem to solve.

As it states on the payment FAQ:

itch.io is not a bank, you should request your earnings from itch.io in a timely manner

I know very little about what legal issues may or may not exist with a wallet system like you propose, but certainly from a business/practical side I can see why Itch might be hesitant about implementing it. It would require them to hold funds indefinitely, shuffling them around between various developers' accounts (while still handling taxes and such) until someone finally paid them out. That's a pretty big ask, and Itch is a pretty small company.

Thank you. You pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding my financial position.  As to Itch's hesitation, it's very understandable. I may have been a bit too pushy; it's easy to forget that Itch is small, when they host what seems like thousands of games

Moderator

Sorry you didn't get a timely answer. All I can tell you is, this feature has been requested many times, but our admins don't consider it a priority. firecat and William make good points about potential issues; I'll see if we can get a more detailed official answer.

(+1)

Thanks for trying to help. I realize that this feature will probably not be implemented for various reasons; It would be nice, but it might not be possible for Itch at this time. However, an official answer would be great; we would finally have the admins' perspective on the whole matter. Again, thanks for trying to help.

I have been using LiberaPay for a while (started using it just before the issues with (I think) MangoPay happened) and because of their dealing with stuff with MangoPay, they went through some process that they found that they were not able to offer a "wallet" system, any more.  I'm not quite sure what the issue really was, but in essence in order for them to *legally* be able to offer a wallet system, they would have to be declared a bank in at least one country, and quite possibly in a country which deals with any currency they deal with.  

I have no idea which project would be considered to be more capable of handling this.  I'd really wish there was a way that it could at the very least be a short term option, ie. with Patreon (which I also deal with) they allow the possibility to pay out to the creators you support, with the money you make from the supporters who support you).  

If that were an option, and they could say, "money not paid out within X days, reverts to itch.io" or something it would be something that could work out reasonably well.  I'd *love* to have that X be 90 days (not that I'm doing stuff here that would make it an issue).  I think the problem with that, is that it would require setting up some accounting to deal with figuring out how long, "that" money has been in the account.  

I do think that the problem is *probably* a matter of it not being a priority.  Though there are technical/legal concerns that do come up which would need to be addressed in any such system.  

Yeah, something like this is what I'm talking about. As you say, though, there would be difficulty determining which money expires when. Say I have two dollars, one I got a month ago, and one a week ago. Not so difficult, right? Now make that two sets of fifty dollars. If multiple people did this, it could be hard for a small group like Itch to handle well. So, I have an idea. How about only making the wallet available to those who make below a certain amount per certain amount of time? I'm not sure what monetary and chronological amounts would be best, though. Any suggestions? Or, maybe make it available just to people who specifically ask, like the bank deposit. This could possibly prevent overruse of the system, by limiting it to those who actually need it, as opposed to simply giving everyone the ability.

Moderator
If that were an option, and they could say, "money not paid out within X days, reverts to itch.io" or something it would be something that could work out reasonably well.

That was supposed to be the rule under the new system, but it doesn't seem to have been applied.

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