First of all, thanks for the Linux port, I was one of the people asking for it in stream chat.
This looks like a very ambitious project. On one hand, what you have is really impressive already, and on the other, there's a lot of janky stuff that needs to be ironed out. The AI definitely needs more work, right now it's hard to figure out what it's even doing and how it's gonna react. Also, the 3rd person camera is unwieldy and can go through walls at times.
On the good side, I really like the mobility you have with ledge grabbing here, and the stealth has potential with shooting out lights and using the nightvision to gain an advantage. The light bar in the HUD is a nice idea as well.
Not sure if there's any sort of ending in this demo, I got to the cathedral and tried exploring around but didn't find much.
Finally, some issues I had with the game, and short clips showing them off:
The mouse cursor isn't locked in place even when it's hidden during normal gameplay, making interaction really difficult, you pretty much have to open the inventory to be able to pick up items. I think this is a Linux version bug only since I haven't seen anyone else mention it. https://files.catbox.moe/2vaan9.webm
After dropping a gun with ammo still in it, you can still fire it until you equip something else. (Might be a fun way to ambush enemies though, you could polish it up to be a proper feature.) https://files.catbox.moe/b02wcw.webm
The performance varies a lot depending on the direction you're looking. Guessing by the huge changes in the draw call count, you're probably rendering a lot more than needed at all times. Although this wasn't really a problem on my system, it might become one with larger and more complex levels. https://files.catbox.moe/e8g14f.webm
So, in a way I feel mad respect for this, I feel it for games that are system heavy and try to be like other imsim games, been there myself trying for a while.
But at the same time, this just seems a wrong foundation to make a game on, lemme explain.
First of all, the game starts in third person when clearly is meant to be played in first person, the third person doesn't add anything of value to it so you are better off focusing on one of the two and polishing that one good instead of having two bad ones.
Second, I see you falling in a lot of mistakes that I also fell into at the start of my game (which barely qualifies as a prototype and fails at basic stuff), I see you trying to make a simulation out of everything: aiming has delay and feels physics based, you see through a weird canon thing in the scope, enemies probably have detailed behaviours that most people will fail to see and I don't think that's the good thing about imsims. You probably play it and feel proud of what you've done, which is nice, but for other people to play it you have to find the sweetspot between simulation and game so it retains whats interesting about the sim part of it while being comfortable to play.
Also you seem to be, you know, amateur at this, game is janky, things are not well told to the played, you are probably not an ace at coding and are learning stuff as you go, which can be fine if that's your purpose but if you really want to make a good game for people to enjoy I think you should consider if you are using the right tools. I don't care about enginewars, use source for all I care, but from experience I'll tell you that UE4 is way easier for dumbfucks like you and me, specially if the game is heavily systems driven, it's really easy to make a blueprint talk to another, there are great AI tuts out there and adding juice without making it obnoxious is really easy too and you don't need a CS degree.
My advice is, play more games, see what they get right that you don't, and get good at devving, you'll eventually make good game I think.
Thanks for playing and for the detailed post, my dude. Lemme address a few things and clear a few misconceptions.
>First of all, the game starts in third person when clearly is meant to be played in first person
Yeah, that was a mistake. We decided to have the player have FPS view as standard with an option to use third person if they wish. Don't worry, writing that camera code took me a a few hours or so back when this was a Ludum Dare project with a very different concept so I'm aware of its shortcomings. And I know people use the TP camera for jumping and sneakan so it will stay.
>I see you trying to make a simulation out of everything
eeeh, just like other imsims, this is often smoke and mirrors. Glad that it gives that impression, even if it's a negative one. Maybe one day it will be stim/response but no.
>aiming has delay and feels physics based,
The delay isn't intentional when scoped in. Thanks for pointing that out. Overall, the aiming/scoping in needs to be redone in my opinion, as is recoil, because it's too simple now, again done back for LD and never really updated. And I'm glad that 'bullet' particle hides the simple raycast and gives the illusion of us using actual physics.
>enemies probably have detailed behaviours that most people will fail to see
The AI is dumb as a rock, in fact. I'm not proud of it at all and will re-write, especially given the critisicm about their reaction time, lack of 'alerted' state etc.
>Also you seem to be, you know, amateur at this
That's absolutely true, I am a poster on the amateur game development general after all. It's a hobby. This started as a LD project and was perfected later over the course of 2 months in our spare time. So jank is you know, time constraints. If anything, give us specific things you find the jankiest and we can focus more on polishing them.
>if you really want to make a good game for people to enjoy
Very good point, this is why we're taking constructive criticism regarding things like camera behaviour, character movement, inventory, dialog and the tutorial very seriously, from people who were masochistic enough to enjoy the game. We do intend to sell it at some point, but we're aware that it's a niche and that we need polish (pun intended).
> I don't care about enginewars, use source for all I care, but from experience I'll tell you that UE4 is way easier for dumbfucks like you and me
My CS graduate friends really strongly discouraged me from using blueprints and recommended learning C++. Just like buying assets, I won't sink to certain lows and will I refuse to use blueprints. I'm stuck with my yandev-tier spaghetti code in Unity's C#.
>My advice is, play more games,
Sorry, no time. All our spare time is spent on getting good at devving. All we've got are nostalgia goggles for old titles.
Again, thank you for the lengthy post, I know it's coming from a place of concern and I greatly appreciate it, but don't worry. We're all gonna make it.
1. We didn't have time to add an options screen so we cheated a bit 2. Yeah we'll improve upon the tutorial. It was still needed, as in earlier demo you just got dropped at the station. 3. We're aware of the issues with the inventory, we'll fix 4. Great suggestion, I'll put it in 5. We'll have saves at some point 6. AI is both too dumb and deadly now, still going to work on it 7. Of course
did you come up with this hacking mechanic? i love it, its hilarious. not many specific complaints, i would also say the player movement speed is a little slower than it could be and could be tightened up just a bit.
The HACK THE DATABASE minigame was an idea by a guy I know, he told us he always wanted to see it realized in a game. He's happy with the results Thanks for the suggestion, we're gonna have augmentations for going real fast but we'll keep tweaking the base movement.
Comments
First of all, thanks for the Linux port, I was one of the people asking for it in stream chat.
This looks like a very ambitious project. On one hand, what you have is really impressive already, and on the other, there's a lot of janky stuff that needs to be ironed out. The AI definitely needs more work, right now it's hard to figure out what it's even doing and how it's gonna react. Also, the 3rd person camera is unwieldy and can go through walls at times.
On the good side, I really like the mobility you have with ledge grabbing here, and the stealth has potential with shooting out lights and using the nightvision to gain an advantage. The light bar in the HUD is a nice idea as well.
Not sure if there's any sort of ending in this demo, I got to the cathedral and tried exploring around but didn't find much.
Finally, some issues I had with the game, and short clips showing them off:
The mouse cursor isn't locked in place even when it's hidden during normal gameplay, making interaction really difficult, you pretty much have to open the inventory to be able to pick up items. I think this is a Linux version bug only since I haven't seen anyone else mention it. https://files.catbox.moe/2vaan9.webm
After dropping a gun with ammo still in it, you can still fire it until you equip something else. (Might be a fun way to ambush enemies though, you could polish it up to be a proper feature.) https://files.catbox.moe/b02wcw.webm
The performance varies a lot depending on the direction you're looking. Guessing by the huge changes in the draw call count, you're probably rendering a lot more than needed at all times. Although this wasn't really a problem on my system, it might become one with larger and more complex levels. https://files.catbox.moe/e8g14f.webm
So, in a way I feel mad respect for this, I feel it for games that are system heavy and try to be like other imsim games, been there myself trying for a while.
But at the same time, this just seems a wrong foundation to make a game on, lemme explain.
First of all, the game starts in third person when clearly is meant to be played in first person, the third person doesn't add anything of value to it so you are better off focusing on one of the two and polishing that one good instead of having two bad ones.
Second, I see you falling in a lot of mistakes that I also fell into at the start of my game (which barely qualifies as a prototype and fails at basic stuff), I see you trying to make a simulation out of everything: aiming has delay and feels physics based, you see through a weird canon thing in the scope, enemies probably have detailed behaviours that most people will fail to see and I don't think that's the good thing about imsims. You probably play it and feel proud of what you've done, which is nice, but for other people to play it you have to find the sweetspot between simulation and game so it retains whats interesting about the sim part of it while being comfortable to play.
Also you seem to be, you know, amateur at this, game is janky, things are not well told to the played, you are probably not an ace at coding and are learning stuff as you go, which can be fine if that's your purpose but if you really want to make a good game for people to enjoy I think you should consider if you are using the right tools. I don't care about enginewars, use source for all I care, but from experience I'll tell you that UE4 is way easier for dumbfucks like you and me, specially if the game is heavily systems driven, it's really easy to make a blueprint talk to another, there are great AI tuts out there and adding juice without making it obnoxious is really easy too and you don't need a CS degree.
My advice is, play more games, see what they get right that you don't, and get good at devving, you'll eventually make good game I think.
Thanks for playing and for the detailed post, my dude. Lemme address a few things and clear a few misconceptions.
>First of all, the game starts in third person when clearly is meant to be played in first person
Yeah, that was a mistake. We decided to have the player have FPS view as standard with an option to use third person if they wish. Don't worry, writing that camera code took me a a few hours or so back when this was a Ludum Dare project with a very different concept so I'm aware of its shortcomings. And I know people use the TP camera for jumping and sneakan so it will stay.
>I see you trying to make a simulation out of everything
eeeh, just like other imsims, this is often smoke and mirrors. Glad that it gives that impression, even if it's a negative one. Maybe one day it will be stim/response but no.
>aiming has delay and feels physics based,
The delay isn't intentional when scoped in. Thanks for pointing that out. Overall, the aiming/scoping in needs to be redone in my opinion, as is recoil, because it's too simple now, again done back for LD and never really updated. And I'm glad that 'bullet' particle hides the simple raycast and gives the illusion of us using actual physics.
>enemies probably have detailed behaviours that most people will fail to see
The AI is dumb as a rock, in fact. I'm not proud of it at all and will re-write, especially given the critisicm about their reaction time, lack of 'alerted' state etc.
>Also you seem to be, you know, amateur at this
That's absolutely true, I am a poster on the amateur game development general after all. It's a hobby. This started as a LD project and was perfected later over the course of 2 months in our spare time. So jank is you know, time constraints. If anything, give us specific things you find the jankiest and we can focus more on polishing them.
>if you really want to make a good game for people to enjoy
Very good point, this is why we're taking constructive criticism regarding things like camera behaviour, character movement, inventory, dialog and the tutorial very seriously, from people who were masochistic enough to enjoy the game. We do intend to sell it at some point, but we're aware that it's a niche and that we need polish (pun intended).
> I don't care about enginewars, use source for all I care, but from experience I'll tell you that UE4 is way easier for dumbfucks like you and me
My CS graduate friends really strongly discouraged me from using blueprints and recommended learning C++. Just like buying assets, I won't sink to certain lows and will I refuse to use blueprints. I'm stuck with my yandev-tier spaghetti code in Unity's C#.
>My advice is, play more games,
Sorry, no time. All our spare time is spent on getting good at devving. All we've got are nostalgia goggles for old titles.
Again, thank you for the lengthy post, I know it's coming from a place of concern and I greatly appreciate it, but don't worry. We're all gonna make it.
Show post...
It looks and plays like garbage. the first area has to friendly weapons so you cannot fight back or get pasted the enemies.
bad game
Love your game bro, more people should play it. Probably the best submitted.
My thoughts as I played the demo:
Thanks my dude, here's what I can address:
1. We didn't have time to add an options screen so we cheated a bit
2. Yeah we'll improve upon the tutorial. It was still needed, as in earlier demo you just got dropped at the station.
3. We're aware of the issues with the inventory, we'll fix
4. Great suggestion, I'll put it in
5. We'll have saves at some point
6. AI is both too dumb and deadly now, still going to work on it
7. Of course
did you come up with this hacking mechanic? i love it, its hilarious. not many specific complaints, i would also say the player movement speed is a little slower than it could be and could be tightened up just a bit.
The HACK THE DATABASE minigame was an idea by a guy I know, he told us he always wanted to see it realized in a game. He's happy with the results
Thanks for the suggestion, we're gonna have augmentations for going real fast but we'll keep tweaking the base movement.
best one so far
It's very good
Maybe make main character a little faster?
other than that the game is really fucking good.
I ended up playing some more and I was able to do so much for. You should market this as an horror game since it is tense at times.
Thanks my dude, as I told Fleech, we'll tweak movement and add a gottagofast augmentation.