Yeah, that stuff to me is just part of what I want to go for, requiring weapons and attacks for certain situations, and needing to level strength to swim faster.
Pretty interesting with a lot of depth. The movement and combat don't feel particularly good to me, like a nightmare where I try to run but just can't. I did enjoy details like water cancelling out fire.
Oh shit I'm sorry man, I had a fan on and didn't really think to check the audio. My bad. I didn't have too many comments, it was a big improvement from last time. The effects are nice, the tutorial great, potions/food etc are easy to understand. I hope the gameplay video is useful on its own, keep it up!
The survival mechanics clash with the current level design. I’m playing a game where the dungeon is designed for me to make progress by attempting one room at a time, yet I respawn far away while being punished for running back to where I was and having a regenerative healing model that rewards loitering around.
The room with the three whip enemies was the hardest thing in the dungeon. A bit strange that it has no reward.
The pipe mechanic, as currently implemented, is awful. There’s not much substance to it puzzle-wise, yet it makes you backtrack back and forth, which is aggravating when you aren’t even allowed to run without capping stamina. There is a clash of gameplay styles here. The concept is interesting, though, as are the various implementations of water in the game.
There are many sequence breaks involving dodging, as you can dodge through most things. I thought some of them were intentional, but then I could skip the entire anor londo roof room and that was clearly not what the game expected me to do.
The giant will cheese itself unprompted by backstepping into the lava. Not sure if intentional.
The base damage on whip enemies is so low and their annoyance so great that it feels the appropriate strategy is to just let yourself be grabbed while planning your deterministic 180 degrees throw direction, and that’s a bit disappointing. The room with three whip enemies can be cheesed somewhat this way, too, since parts of the edges have no lava.
I didn’t get to beat the boss, but fighting it was much more fun than navigating the dungeon. Given that there is no save function there is no chance I’m going to do the piping again to get to it in this build.
The survival mechanics clash with the current level design. I’m playing a game where the dungeon is designed for me to make progress by attempting one room at a time, yet I respawn far away while being punished for running back to where I was and having a regenerative healing model that rewards loitering around.
Hmmm. I'll admit, I have conflicting opinions about what you're saying. I want the game to have decent survival mechanics that forces the player to think about their actions and doing their best to avoid taking damage, which is why there's permanent injuries. As for the regenerative healing thing, did you use the Ko Salve at all, or just save it for fights? I could see people feeling the need to save it, which isn't my goal. The time pressure thing definitely needs to be made mechanical if I want to keep regeneration around.
The room with the three whip enemies was the hardest thing in the dungeon. A bit strange that it has no reward.
Yeah you're right.
The pipe mechanic, as currently implemented, is awful. There’s not much substance to it puzzle-wise, yet it makes you backtrack back and forth, which is aggravating when you aren’t even allowed to run without capping stamina. There is a clash of gameplay styles here. The concept is interesting, though, as are the various implementations of water in the game.
Hmmm, yeah, I was afraid it was going to end up ultimately cumbersome. Was it too easy, and ultimately annoying once you got your hands on the pipe map?
There are many sequence breaks involving dodging, as you can dodge through most things. I thought some of them were intentional, but then I could skip the entire anor londo roof room and that was clearly not what the game expected me to do.
Truth be told, that's actually intentional. I can see why it wouldn't appear as such though. I'm actually happy you managed to figure that out! In play testing, few people figured out they could dodge over gaps like that.
The giant will cheese itself unprompted by backstepping into the lava. Not sure if intentional.
Also intentional, but maybe not satisfying. He is a pain in the ass to beat in his current state if you can't cheese him, and not everyone is able to figure out they can get him to backstep into the lava, so at least for me as a designer it feels like "outsmarting" the enemy, but I can imagine as a player it might not be satisfying.
The base damage on whip enemies is so low and their annoyance so great that it feels the appropriate strategy is to just let yourself be grabbed while planning your deterministic 180 degrees throw direction, and that’s a bit disappointing. The room with three whip enemies can be cheesed somewhat this way, too, since parts of the edges have no lava.
Hmm, did you ever get hit by their hammer swings? That can actually pack a wallop if you're not careful. Also, did you manage to beat the trio? I know that fight is pretty tricky. If it's not obvious, they're very much designed to be most dangerous in spaces where they can throw you into lava.
I didn’t get to beat the boss, but fighting it was much more fun than navigating the dungeon. Given that there is no save function there is no chance I’m going to do the piping again to get to it in this build.
Yeah, it's understandable you would stop there. I'm happy you got to the boss though! Did you happen to find the hidden camp site that leads directly into the latter half of the dungeon? Thanks for playing so much! I really appreciate it.
ShReck huh? Fun combat. Getting enemies to walk into water is overpowered.
Wall-hitting is infuriating and much more annoying here than it is in Dark Souls because your weapon covers an area 3-5 times that of your character, depending on your attack. Consider nerfing the weapon's hitbox a bit when it is checked against for that.
I actually like the simplistic graphics for outdoor environments (and their tropical setting) over the soulless Zelda dungeon tileset.
If the stamina capping mechanic was explained in the tutorial I missed it. It's intuitive enough to be fun to notice for yourself, but a strange omission nonetheless. Also, is it really worth it to have that punishment for just running? It forces slow traversal and yet is lenient enough that it adds very little consideration during combat.
Auto-restock does not restore your bars, and although that makes lore sense, do you intend to do anything with the time mechanic that would preclude it?
The arrow pointing towards the vaguely lava-looking tiles made me think it was OK to walk into them. Then the progression path was to go in the opposite direction they were pointing which was a bit weird.
The enemy health bars are hard to read, as their dark red barely stands out with the adjacent bright green and especially against their own slightly darker max hp bar. Consider making them brighter or larger.
I thought the day/night cycle icon was a quest marker for a while.
Walking through long stretches of water is boring. Let us tap a button to swim faster or something.
I got stuck at a room with two doors and two eyes I couldn't interact with and went looking elsewhere, but couldn't find anything other than that one trap room.
Fun combat. Getting enemies to walk into water is overpowered.
Yeah, you're not wrong.
Wall-hitting is infuriating and much more annoying here than it is in Dark Souls because your weapon covers an area 3-5 times that of your character, depending on your attack. Consider nerfing the weapon's hitbox a bit when it is checked against for that.
I'll consider it. Heads up though, the stab attack doesn't wall hit.
I actually like the simplistic graphics for outdoor environments (and their tropical setting) over the soulless Zelda dungeon tileset.
I do too. I never got around to punching up the dungeon tiles. Ideally there'd be a lot of unique details in places.
If the stamina capping mechanic was explained in the tutorial I missed it. It's intuitive enough to be fun to notice for yourself, but a strange omission nonetheless. Also, is it really worth it to have that punishment for just running? It forces slow traversal and yet is lenient enough that it adds very little consideration during combat.
There's a lot of stuff the tutorial doesn't cover, including health and stamina caps. I've been thinking of making it so running only hurts your max stamina, so if the player is willing to spend it, they can, without having to slow down now and then.
Auto-restock does not restore your bars, and although that makes lore sense, do you intend to do anything with the time mechanic that would preclude it?
Yeah. My plan is to make far more dangerous enemies appear at night, and since the game is going to be based around exploration the player will have to balance exploring and traveling at a fast enough space (potentially spending stamina running) with using stamina for combat and eating food. Plus enemies respawn when you heal, so there's that balancing act as well, of getting further on what you have.
The arrow pointing towards the vaguely lava-looking tiles made me think it was OK to walk into them. Then the progression path was to go in the opposite direction they were pointing which was a bit weird.
I hadn't considered someone thinking that's what the arrow means. The arrow just shows the direction of water flow in pipes, which it seems you never got to.
The enemy health bars are hard to read, as their dark red barely stands out with the adjacent bright green and especially against their own slightly darker max hp bar. Consider making them brighter or larger.
Yeah, I'm probably just going to remove those in the end and make a big health bar appear if you target an enemy. Or remove enemy health bars entirely.
I thought the day/night cycle icon was a quest marker for a while.
Good job.
Walking through long stretches of water is boring. Let us tap a button to swim faster or something.
You can do a dodge to move faster through walkable water. Leveling up will make you swim faster once leveling is implemented.
I got stuck at a room with two doors and two eyes I couldn't interact with and went looking elsewhere, but couldn't find anything other than that one trap room.
You gotta get good at figuring out puzzles, man. That one is stupidly simple too.
Anyway, thanks for giving the game another go after the issues previously. And thanks for leaving such a detailed response.
Yeah, I have since figured that you can roll through the lava and take no damage for it. It's a bit strange visually, but I guess it does work as a mechanical puzzle.
What it was really lacking in the looks department (except for the palm trees and the day/night switch, those are nice) It made up for in mechanics. Swimming, different depth of water, combos, dodging mechanics that includes hitting the ground, a radial menu, grappling from both you and the enemies and a wide variety of enemies with different stratigies. Also snazzy music.
I’ve encountered no bugs during my play. My only critique would be that I see no reason just to avoid enemies and move on to the next map. Sorry I don’t have much to say, I just wanted to be said that your game is much better than the screenshots would led you to believe.
I appreciate the play. Leveling should be getting added soon, which should incentivize more combat. I'll also try and make it so some enemies can chase the player into other zones.
I get a truckload of error notices about no_aiming, no_moving, no_turning, no_attacking, no_dodging, no_interacting, no_tools, etc. being set to -1 whenever I die
Comments
hardcore shit, overall combat feels good
i really really hate the fact that the weapon bounces off walls
swimming can be horridly slow
also those might not even be issues because i think this is just not my kind of game (im really not a fan of dark souls)
Yeah, that stuff to me is just part of what I want to go for, requiring weapons and attacks for certain situations, and needing to level strength to swim faster.
Pretty interesting with a lot of depth. The movement and combat don't feel particularly good to me, like a nightmare where I try to run but just can't. I did enjoy details like water cancelling out fire.
Thanks for playing! Are you able to elaborate on what you mean with the movement?
I think mostly it's just too slow. Sprinting doesn't feel much faster, and the little bit of delay to start sprinting feels much too long.
Thanks for playing! I'm sure you noticed your audio was almost impossible to hear, so I couldn't tell what any of your comments were.
Oh shit I'm sorry man, I had a fan on and didn't really think to check the audio. My bad. I didn't have too many comments, it was a big improvement from last time. The effects are nice, the tutorial great, potions/food etc are easy to understand. I hope the gameplay video is useful on its own, keep it up!
I played this again and got a bit further in.
The survival mechanics clash with the current level design. I’m playing a game where the dungeon is designed for me to make progress by attempting one room at a time, yet I respawn far away while being punished for running back to where I was and having a regenerative healing model that rewards loitering around.
The room with the three whip enemies was the hardest thing in the dungeon. A bit strange that it has no reward.
The pipe mechanic, as currently implemented, is awful. There’s not much substance to it puzzle-wise, yet it makes you backtrack back and forth, which is aggravating when you aren’t even allowed to run without capping stamina. There is a clash of gameplay styles here. The concept is interesting, though, as are the various implementations of water in the game.
There are many sequence breaks involving dodging, as you can dodge through most things. I thought some of them were intentional, but then I could skip the entire anor londo roof room and that was clearly not what the game expected me to do.
The giant will cheese itself unprompted by backstepping into the lava. Not sure if intentional.
The base damage on whip enemies is so low and their annoyance so great that it feels the appropriate strategy is to just let yourself be grabbed while planning your deterministic 180 degrees throw direction, and that’s a bit disappointing. The room with three whip enemies can be cheesed somewhat this way, too, since parts of the edges have no lava.
I didn’t get to beat the boss, but fighting it was much more fun than navigating the dungeon. Given that there is no save function there is no chance I’m going to do the piping again to get to it in this build.
The survival mechanics clash with the current level design. I’m playing a game where the dungeon is designed for me to make progress by attempting one room at a time, yet I respawn far away while being punished for running back to where I was and having a regenerative healing model that rewards loitering around.
Hmmm. I'll admit, I have conflicting opinions about what you're saying. I want the game to have decent survival mechanics that forces the player to think about their actions and doing their best to avoid taking damage, which is why there's permanent injuries. As for the regenerative healing thing, did you use the Ko Salve at all, or just save it for fights? I could see people feeling the need to save it, which isn't my goal. The time pressure thing definitely needs to be made mechanical if I want to keep regeneration around.
The room with the three whip enemies was the hardest thing in the dungeon. A bit strange that it has no reward.
Yeah you're right.
The pipe mechanic, as currently implemented, is awful. There’s not much substance to it puzzle-wise, yet it makes you backtrack back and forth, which is aggravating when you aren’t even allowed to run without capping stamina. There is a clash of gameplay styles here. The concept is interesting, though, as are the various implementations of water in the game.
Hmmm, yeah, I was afraid it was going to end up ultimately cumbersome. Was it too easy, and ultimately annoying once you got your hands on the pipe map?
There are many sequence breaks involving dodging, as you can dodge through most things. I thought some of them were intentional, but then I could skip the entire anor londo roof room and that was clearly not what the game expected me to do.
Truth be told, that's actually intentional. I can see why it wouldn't appear as such though. I'm actually happy you managed to figure that out! In play testing, few people figured out they could dodge over gaps like that.
The giant will cheese itself unprompted by backstepping into the lava. Not sure if intentional.
Also intentional, but maybe not satisfying. He is a pain in the ass to beat in his current state if you can't cheese him, and not everyone is able to figure out they can get him to backstep into the lava, so at least for me as a designer it feels like "outsmarting" the enemy, but I can imagine as a player it might not be satisfying.
The base damage on whip enemies is so low and their annoyance so great that it feels the appropriate strategy is to just let yourself be grabbed while planning your deterministic 180 degrees throw direction, and that’s a bit disappointing. The room with three whip enemies can be cheesed somewhat this way, too, since parts of the edges have no lava.
Hmm, did you ever get hit by their hammer swings? That can actually pack a wallop if you're not careful. Also, did you manage to beat the trio? I know that fight is pretty tricky. If it's not obvious, they're very much designed to be most dangerous in spaces where they can throw you into lava.
I didn’t get to beat the boss, but fighting it was much more fun than navigating the dungeon. Given that there is no save function there is no chance I’m going to do the piping again to get to it in this build.
Yeah, it's understandable you would stop there. I'm happy you got to the boss though! Did you happen to find the hidden camp site that leads directly into the latter half of the dungeon? Thanks for playing so much! I really appreciate it.
ShReck huh? Fun combat. Getting enemies to walk into water is overpowered.
Wall-hitting is infuriating and much more annoying here than it is in Dark Souls because your weapon covers an area 3-5 times that of your character, depending on your attack. Consider nerfing the weapon's hitbox a bit when it is checked against for that.
I actually like the simplistic graphics for outdoor environments (and their tropical setting) over the soulless Zelda dungeon tileset.
If the stamina capping mechanic was explained in the tutorial I missed it. It's intuitive enough to be fun to notice for yourself, but a strange omission nonetheless. Also, is it really worth it to have that punishment for just running? It forces slow traversal and yet is lenient enough that it adds very little consideration during combat.
Auto-restock does not restore your bars, and although that makes lore sense, do you intend to do anything with the time mechanic that would preclude it?
The arrow pointing towards the vaguely lava-looking tiles made me think it was OK to walk into them. Then the progression path was to go in the opposite direction they were pointing which was a bit weird.
The enemy health bars are hard to read, as their dark red barely stands out with the adjacent bright green and especially against their own slightly darker max hp bar. Consider making them brighter or larger.
I thought the day/night cycle icon was a quest marker for a while.
Walking through long stretches of water is boring. Let us tap a button to swim faster or something.
I got stuck at a room with two doors and two eyes I couldn't interact with and went looking elsewhere, but couldn't find anything other than that one trap room.
Fun combat. Getting enemies to walk into water is overpowered.
Yeah, you're not wrong.
Wall-hitting is infuriating and much more annoying here than it is in Dark Souls because your weapon covers an area 3-5 times that of your character, depending on your attack. Consider nerfing the weapon's hitbox a bit when it is checked against for that.
I'll consider it. Heads up though, the stab attack doesn't wall hit.
I actually like the simplistic graphics for outdoor environments (and their tropical setting) over the soulless Zelda dungeon tileset.
I do too. I never got around to punching up the dungeon tiles. Ideally there'd be a lot of unique details in places.
If the stamina capping mechanic was explained in the tutorial I missed it. It's intuitive enough to be fun to notice for yourself, but a strange omission nonetheless. Also, is it really worth it to have that punishment for just running? It forces slow traversal and yet is lenient enough that it adds very little consideration during combat.
There's a lot of stuff the tutorial doesn't cover, including health and stamina caps. I've been thinking of making it so running only hurts your max stamina, so if the player is willing to spend it, they can, without having to slow down now and then.
Auto-restock does not restore your bars, and although that makes lore sense, do you intend to do anything with the time mechanic that would preclude it?
Yeah. My plan is to make far more dangerous enemies appear at night, and since the game is going to be based around exploration the player will have to balance exploring and traveling at a fast enough space (potentially spending stamina running) with using stamina for combat and eating food. Plus enemies respawn when you heal, so there's that balancing act as well, of getting further on what you have.
The arrow pointing towards the vaguely lava-looking tiles made me think it was OK to walk into them. Then the progression path was to go in the opposite direction they were pointing which was a bit weird.
I hadn't considered someone thinking that's what the arrow means. The arrow just shows the direction of water flow in pipes, which it seems you never got to.
The enemy health bars are hard to read, as their dark red barely stands out with the adjacent bright green and especially against their own slightly darker max hp bar. Consider making them brighter or larger.
Yeah, I'm probably just going to remove those in the end and make a big health bar appear if you target an enemy. Or remove enemy health bars entirely.
I thought the day/night cycle icon was a quest marker for a while.
Good job.
Walking through long stretches of water is boring. Let us tap a button to swim faster or something.
You can do a dodge to move faster through walkable water. Leveling up will make you swim faster once leveling is implemented.
I got stuck at a room with two doors and two eyes I couldn't interact with and went looking elsewhere, but couldn't find anything other than that one trap room.
You gotta get good at figuring out puzzles, man. That one is stupidly simple too.
Anyway, thanks for giving the game another go after the issues previously. And thanks for leaving such a detailed response.
Yeah, I have since figured that you can roll through the lava and take no damage for it. It's a bit strange visually, but I guess it does work as a mechanical puzzle.
What it was really lacking in the looks department (except for the palm trees and the day/night switch, those are nice) It made up for in mechanics. Swimming, different depth of water, combos, dodging mechanics that includes hitting the ground, a radial menu, grappling from both you and the enemies and a wide variety of enemies with different stratigies. Also snazzy music.
I’ve encountered no bugs during my play. My only critique would be that I see no reason just to avoid enemies and move on to the next map. Sorry I don’t have much to say, I just wanted to be said that your game is much better than the screenshots would led you to believe.
I appreciate the play. Leveling should be getting added soon, which should incentivize more combat. I'll also try and make it so some enemies can chase the player into other zones.
I get a truckload of error notices about no_aiming, no_moving, no_turning, no_attacking, no_dodging, no_interacting, no_tools, etc. being set to -1 whenever I die
Ah shit. Let me try and fix that real fast.
It's fixed. I was stupid.