The most central problem for me personally is that the Steam client has been a literal health hazard since 2019. If I buy a game there, I don't get access to the game. The over $3000 worth of games I bought there before 2019 have been effectively stolen from me by Valve because of the problem, and their refusal (not failure) to fix it.
They've directly acknowledged that they're not just aware of the problem, but were made aware of it within a few days of the update which caused it. Their response started out with a direct promise not to bother taking appropriate steps to fix it, and has only escalate to more abusive behaviour since. That includes violating privacy rights of affected (former) customers, trying to gaslight people, and in at least 2 instances I'm aware of, trying to coerce people into self-harm.
There's a bunch of reasons other people dislike them as well, with a number of features which had been beneficial to power users being removed in the past few years for dumb reasons, but the "they've functionally stolen $3000 worth of games from me" thing is a slightly higher priority on my personal assessment of things.
obliviondoll
Recent community posts
The most notable absences in this game are audio and fullscreen. You say it's an early prototype but it feels really good even in its current state. Art style is beautiful, some neat easter eggs in the background, and the core mechanics just feel solid. Depending how well focused I am, I'm generally going somewhere from 11 to just over 50 kills (my record is 55 so far). Definitely feels like there's room for improvement on my part.
Also, I'd very much like to see control remapping options. Being able to move the buttons around (and view them in-game, not just on this page) would be much appreciated.
For people without a middle mouse button (you can sometimes still find mice like this, but more likely, people on laptops like me), it would be nice to have an alternative mapping for the "move view" option in the coding screen.
Other than that, thanks for a really fun game! I do hope the demo being on Steam isn't an indication that you plan to abandon itch.io with the full game though. I've seen that happen too often, and when a game ends up Steam exclusive, it locks some of us out of supporting you. So please don't do that?
Reproduction steps for the crash:
-Playing on a relatively new i7/RTX4070 system, capable of handling an uncapped framerate of 220fps when there isn't an insane amount going on and rarely dropping below 200 even during most high-complexity interactions.
-Flying a Kitsune in compact mode (it's possible in other ships or with the cargo bay expanded, but harder to trigger on purpose).
-Get a thruster or plasma thrower from anotehr ship lined up perfectly to blast its plume into the glowing strip on the side of the ship where it extends, as close to perpendicular as possible.
-Give the other ship a reason to burn with that specific thruster and melt the inside of your ship.
This will *usually* result in instant 6000K+ temperature *and* instant 100% overheat applied to the ship's computer. If so, the game will *sometimes* lag out to the point of taking 3 to 5 seconds to load the next frame, and basically stalling time to try and work out just how screwed you are.
If the game survives long enough to see the ship explode, it probably won't crash, but sometimes it doesn't make it that long and just closes on you, no warning, no error, just gone.
...new problem (actually seems to be a bug this time - reproducible and everything).
Got hit by a thruster plume right after winning a race, and as my ship was going up in flames, the game crashed. Given that it was kind of a terrible way to lose a ship, I was tempted to alt+f4 but the game locked up before my ship exploded... then just closed on me with no warning.
On relaunching the game and trying to repeat the dive and race again, the "Bring it on!" answer when asked if I'm challenging the ship was flagged (incorrectly) as a "hang up" option, but continued the conversation properly. When I tried to rematch, the line was (again) tagged as a "hang up" option, but this time, actually behaves like one. Which prevents me from rematching.
Since the previous update (Farthest Orbit), I've had a good amount of free time and... I found a problem I was *hoping* this hotfix was going to address, but it doesn't seem to have done so.
Within 5 minutes of starting most dives, and so far in the past 3 days, I've only lasted more than 10 minutes on one dive out of more than 20 attempts, a ship comes in with high-EMP microwaves and shuts my computer down (I'm sure you know the kind, don't want to give too many spoilers). If I'm in one of my bigger and heavier mining ships, even if I see the first LIDAR ping and immediately decide "hail error" = "gtfo", I can't get my ship to return to Enceladus before the attacker starts shooting and burns my computer out, preventing me from leaving by constantly resetting the course calculations. If I try to run somewhere else, it can easily outrun me and does the same thing. If I fight, I get my ship trashed, and spend more in repairs than I made from the dive because it only lasted a few minutes.
I like the game's combat. I like these enemies. I had fun when I'd go 20 or so dives without seeing one, then have a rough fight that one time, but return with enough ore to cover my costs. But I *don't* have fun when they show up literally every 5 minutes and make actually mining in the space mining game an impractical way to try and play.
I also don't like that the Obonto Habitats seem to have a non-aggression pact with these ships, not even helping to defend a friendly ship that's being attacked while docked with their station. When a friendly station with more point defense weapons than my ship could ever mount is literally holding my ship in place and collecting resources from me, I feel like I should be a *LITTLE* safer than "fend for yourself" when I come under attack and those attacks are hitting the station as well.
Not a new issue, but new to me since I've only recently started racing. And it's relevant given some of the conversation improvements mentioned in this update...
When you contact (or sometimes are approached by them, sometimes you'll get the conversation to go thusly:
"Hi, are you here to challenge <ship name> to a race?"
"Bring it on!"
"Sorry, this area's a bit hot right now, come back later."
(If you don't have a racing site available, this response feels like it should create one, but doesn't)
Or...
"Hi, are you here to challenge <ship name> to a race?"
"Bring it on!"
"Sorry, we don't have a drone set up right now."
(Also makes sense that this should create a racing site if there isn't one already active, but it doesn't)
And bonus points for the second one coming up after you win a race too.
"Are you up for a rematch?" (the other ship asking, not me)
"Bring it on!"
"Sorry, can't."
(...then why did you offer?)
Racing is great fun, but the weirdly specific conversation options surrounding the races feel a bit less dynamic and responsive than some of the other dialog the game has. Still epic fun, but it feels like it's been left behind a bit compared with the other conversation options.
Lets consider some facts:
-Within days after the update which caused the problem (over 5 years ago), it was confirmed that the Steam client was causing harm to users with either or both of 2 medical conditions, and has since been found to be affecting several other photosensitive conditions (the first 2 being the ones which come with a risk of hospitalisation).
-Multiple users with no prior history of any computer software behaving as a trigger for our conditions have found that the Steam client appears to be a singular exception to that since this update.
-I've directly tested it and confirmed that the Steam client itself was causing issues for me personally, and ruled out the possibility of the trigger being any other software I was running through or alongside the client.
-It's been over 4 years since I stopped trying to use the Steam client, and in that time, I've regained access to about 90% of the games I had played on Steam while it was causing problems, and none of them has caused any issues when played outside of Steam. The one game I had been playing at the time which I haven't regained personal access to, I've watched a friend play on a different platform, and also had no issues while doing so.
-In more than 30 years of computer use, I've had no instances of any game being found to act as a migraine trigger for me, nor any other computer software, except for the Steam client, in spite of playing easily 10x as many games as I ever had on my (functionally stolen) Steam account, which was worth over $3000 at the time I was forced to abandon it.
-I picked the demo of this game up before it had a Steam page, and have played well over 50 hours of it (probably more than 100, though I haven't kept accurate track). I've never tried running the game through Steam, and I've never had it trigger a migraine in that time.
-Just in the past year, I have hundreds of hours in games more flashy than this one, also without any issues.
Given that there are multiple people other than me who have confirmed they've had similar issues, and I've been involved with tests which confirmed it to be a problem for me, I think putting the blame on Steam is pretty solid. Even without that, having 50+ hours of playtime without it ever causing problems is a pretty clear indication that this game has never been the cause of my problems.
I've got similar stories. Recently picked the game back up after a long time away. I've hired a new mechanic and she's got a similar reputation - got warned to keep out of the way of a local bounty hunter, even though she "claims" to have retired from her old job. And my pilot has a cat, so that's cool. I'm actually out in the rings while I type this message :)
Funny, because if you type "steam migraine epilepsy" into Google, there's at least half a dozen separate discussions in the first page of results when I try it. Multiple reports of the client affecting users with either or both conditions, and a significant number of examples where specific known triggers have been identified as being added into the Steam client at the time of the update (which, again, was 5 years ago at this point).
Also, if you've actually had any measure of experience with getting professional help with your condition, you've almost certainly heard that, like most issues which are directly connected with the behaviour of the brain, every case is unique and the response to different triggers will be different from others with the same condition as you. It happens with migraines, epilepsy, mental health conditions, and various other things involving the brain. It's great that you don't personally have to deal with the problems which have forced other gamers to leave the platform, but your personal experience will never change how someone else's condition responds to the same stimuli.
That's your take on this? Seriously? No. There are numerous conversations (including on the Steam forums) about the problems. Valve has known it's an issue since a few days after they caused it with an update in 2019. They've done nothing to fix the various problems, and taken multiple steps which make things worse, and behaved in actively abusive ways toward the (former) customers trying to get the problems fixed.
I wish I was a troll, that would mean I wouldn't have lost $3000 worth of games which Valve have effectively stolen from me.
By acting as a trigger for migraines, epilepsy, and several other conditions where various forms of light can act as triggers for things. In this case, Steam is affecting a surprising number of gamers (myself among them) who have never had any software app other than Steam act as a trigger for our conditions. It's honestly pretty crazy - and so is the response from Valve (which literally includes violating privacy laws in response to being asked to fix the problem).
I'm a little disappointed to see you're no longer posting your updates here, and more importantly, to have no response (yet) to the concerns I've raised about Steam exclusivity.
The Steam client is (still) a health risk, and has been since 2019. When you first mentioned going to Steam for early access, I pointed this out. I've been hoping for a response, or some confirmation that the game will be available elsewhere, even if not during the early access process. I know Steam provides a lot of useful tools for a game in development, but being literally harmful to some users is kind of a deal breaker when I'm one of those people.
Honestly, that's a good question, but I (and a number of other users with issues) don't know. I'm not normally affected by anything on computers in this way, so the usual obvious triggers (of which there are at least half a dozen which have been clearly identified and reported by users for whom they're known to be problematic) probably aren't the ones affecting me, or at least aren't individually causing problems. Even without having seen some of the responses from staff, the best case scenario would be willful ignorance. And there have been direct statements from both support staff (third party) and Valve employees, not just saying that they have no current plans to address the issues, but that they are aware of the problems and are knowingly choosing to do nothing to solve them. They've done plenty worse than this too, but this isn't really the place to go into the scale and severity of abusive conduct I've seen there.
For a bit of context, though, this is a quick mention of the first few issues that come to mind which have been clearly identified as being active triggers for multiple medical conditions:
-excessively high contrast colours in some areas of the UI, exacerbated by changes in how game cover art/thumbnails are displayed.
-glitchy flickering on multiple screens in the app on some devices (not dependent on system specs, sometimes higher end PCs have issues and lower spec systems don't, and vice versa).
-flickering effects caused by multiple instances of loading images on almost every page in the app which has images.
That last one is noteworthy because if the update which caused all these issues hadn't included the removal of several features for modding the app, about 80% of the problem was in areas which mods could have fixed, but because of other parts of the update, the necessary tools no longer exist so the issue is 100% unfixable without excessive use of third-party tools. The colour contrast issues can be worked around fairly safely with graysale mode, but that causes issues of its own (and can be service-breaking in some instances), but most of the other options have unstable or unreliable workarounds at best. And, as mentioned, there are several more clearly identified issues, as well as potentially some problems caused by interactions between the known problems, or by something else going on with the app that's not as easily identified.
Does colourblind mode help? No.
Can I push a button to turn on grayscale? Yes.
Does that help? No, and it wouldn't be a valid solution even if it did.
Is there any workaround which does work? NOT ANY MORE - there had been one I could use previously, but they REMOVED it.
Multiple other workarounds which have been useful to people affected by the problem have been removed. The tools which remain are useful for some people, but not many, and a lot of the tools which DID work for some of us have been getting disabled for various seemingly-unrelated reasons.
In 2019, there was an update to the Steam client, and within days of that update going live, it was confirmed by several users to have caused the app to act as a trigger for migraines and epilepsy in some people with either condition. Since then, at least half a dozen separate triggers have been identified, and several more conditions (less severe ones than the first two) have been found to also be affected by the changes.
While delays are less fun than having the game you want right now, a good game that's delayed is better than a messy unpolished product that's available on schedule. There are too many examples out there to point to all of them, but pushing a timeframe over a good product doesn't help.
Also, still hoping the game doesn't end up being exclusively locked to Steam. There are various reasons some of us can't or won't use it (in my case, literally can't, it's been a known health risk for 5 years and Valve has openly refused to take appropriate action and behaved abusively in spite of knowing about the problems). At this stage, I'd even advocate in favour of Epic exclusivity (not that they're doing it any more) over releasing a game exclusively on Steam.
There have been multiple discussions about it in a lot of places, including the Steam forums. It's easy enough to Google "Steam client migraine epilepsy" and find a bunch of information about it. Here's where one of the Steam mods decided to bury the issue under the beta forum in spite of it being a problem with the current version of the client. It's got a lot of links to other discussions about the problem too:
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/SteamClientBeta/discussions/3/2962768084999962...
Dozens of people posted publicly there and I know of a good number who avoided public discussion of the issue and just took it up privately with Steam support. There have been several people I know of who have provided direct proof of multiple problems, some more easily tested for and pinned down than others. Valve's response so far has included admitting they're aware of the problem but promising not to fix it, gaslighting users having issues, and violating the privacy rights of people affected by the problem.
That's nice for you, but doesn't change anything about the facts surrounding the situation. Some people with epilepsy haven't had the Steam client trigger their issues either. Both conditions are highly variable in their triggers from one individual to the next, so it's normal for some people to have issues while others don't. I have migraines severe enough to have put me in hospital on several occasions, and had a little over a month where I only went 4 days *without* a migraine because of the issues (and those 4 days were the days I didn't launch Steam on my PC) before finding out there were people with concerns about it.
There have been half a dozen potential triggers for both conditions which have been confirmed to be present in the Steam client since the update, none of which had been present in older versions of the client, and all of which have been proven to be present without any room for dispute. Jsut because none of them happens to be a trigger which affects you personally, doesn't negate that they're a problem. I've personally never had issues with any other software on any electronic device at all prior to this, but the Steam client since the update has been the most consistent and most aggressive trigger I've found so far in over 20 years of dealing with migraines.
I'm glad you're not having problems, but don't try and pretend that means anything for the problem as a whole.
I'm "on about" the fact that since an update in 2019, the Steam client has been known to be acting as a trigger for several medical conditions (initially confirmed to be triggering migraines and epilepsy, but later found to be harming people with several other conditions as well). And the fact that Valve's response has at best been to acknowledge the problem exists and say they don't care, and on multiple occasions has included gaslighting affected customers, violating privacy laws, and worse.
Not sure what part of that I was unclear about?
Thanks for the confirmation, but to be clear, I don't only mean paid exclusivity deals. A lot of games which start out here or other indie sites end up showing up on Steam and just quietly not getting updated here any more, with the early build on this site becoming a demo version instead of actually being the full game after launch. I'm hoping you don't go that route (and hoping that was what you were answering, but just want to be sure).
Please don't lock the game into being Steam exclusive. After nearly 5 years of Valve knowingly causing harm to some users and crossing the line from negligence to actual abuse on several occasions I know of, I'd even argue that *Epic* exclusivity would be a better idea than locking your game behind a platform that's a literal health hazard for some people.
The game does look cool and the demo is fun, but make sure it shows up here, or somewhere else as well as Steam? Obviously in spite of blatantly abusive behaviour from the company, Steam is still the biggest storefront for PC gaming, so not selling it there would be silly if you have the option. But don't lock your potential fans out of the opportunity to pick the game up.
I've been out of touch for a while now and just picked the game back up with the 1.0 release. So many amazing new things! I installed on a new PC and didn't copy my old save, so i'm starting from nothing. I beat the new final boss after 4 runs, unlocked endless mode and have seen 3 other bosses I'd never seen before. I still feel like I don't really know what I'm doing in a lot of ways but there's a lot of epic and crazy options to play with! Keep being awesome!
Please, PLEASE don't make the early access version Steam exclusive. I won't wishlist on Steam, and I literally *CAN'T* buy there if I want to actually be able to play the game I bought. So making sure the game is available somewhere else (like, for example, here, where the current demo build is already available) is going to be important if you want me to be able to support you.
I do get that Steam has some tools itch.io lacks, so it'll be understandable if you can't do a combined release for early access. If that ends up being the case, I hope you don't remain Steam exclusive forever on the full version of the game. Because, as mentioned, locking a game behind Steam is a guarantee that I'll never be willing or able to touch it. And that would be a shame because I've really enjoyed the demo.
In case you need the backstory:
Since 2019, Valve has known the Steam client is causing harm to users with several medical conditions (in my case, migraines, but it's also affecting some users with epilepsy as well as a few less severe conditions). Their response to feedback about the issue has ranged from negligent to abusive depending on how patient the customer is with the company. The more you're willing to keep trying to push for the most basic of competence in providing the service you've been paying them to provide, the more likely they are to go beyond being incompetent and into being actively abusive (including but not limited to conduct which violates privacy laws in most civilised countries and even some US states).