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Post-Voting Updates Locked

A topic by LunchPixel created Sep 06, 2023 Views: 822 Replies: 19
This topic was locked by Vellyne Sep 12, 2023

Derailed due to White Developer talk

Viewing posts 1 to 7

Are updates allowed after the end of the voting period but before the games are played on stream? It felt like this was a significant factor in monkey jam, so I would appreciate some clarification. 

Thanks!

Submitted

In the rules it is said no updates DURING the voting period, so I belive you are allowed to update the game the second the voting ends. At least that's what I'm planning to do .o .

(+2)

Most likely not because Mouse would still need to pick 5 out of the top 20 voted, updating the game before she tries would be unfair to the jam rules in a way, that is what I think at least!

I agree that it feels against the spirit of the thing, but if allowed it gives a huge advantage to anyone that does so. Which is why I'd like an official answer.

Jam Host(+2)

Updates are not allowed until Mousey has played them on stream or the voting and prescreening process would need to be done all over again 

Submitted (3 edits) (+1)(-3)

I don't really see why the voting would need to be redone, since the top 20 would already be decided and it would allow the finalists to fix anything they wouldn't want the stream to see. I guess we can't avoid the comparison to the Monke Jam, ran by Connor (CDawgVA), LordKyubae and StellenCopy. One of the winners of that game jam, "Monkeet" by "byXToGo", had an update before Connor did his stream with the jam submissions, which allowed for a better game and stream experience for both Connor and his viewers. And this update did not loose byXToGo their #10 spot based on the voting period, since the rules didn't say anything against it. And just like with Monke Jam, Mouse Jam's rules specifically say that the updates aren't allowed DURING the voting period (...you may not submit any work or updates during the voting period.), and there's not a single word about post-voting period updates. And changing the rules mid-voting would be kinda nasty, since everyone has already read the rules on the main page of the jam, why would anyone re-read them and find a new rule? And you can't expect everyone to read this specific community board...

Another great example would be "monke girlfriend wants FRUIT!" by "Brewed Leaves" and "MatcheboxMox", who are actually participating in Monkey Jam with "Cutie Conquest". These devs have made some small bugfixes DURING the voting period. And they still got the #12 spot and got to be played on stream on Connor. 

And if someone who doesn't get to the top 20, updates their game and it becomes awesome and considered by many to be worthy of the prize or being played by Mousey, well too bad, since THAT IS against the rules, cause it didn't get into the top 20 DURING the voting period.

Also if the top 20 games (aka the results tab) will be hidden initially like with the Monke Jam, there won't be a way for devs to tell that they've made it to the finals, so they'll have little to no ulterior motive to put in something nasty in the game, knowing that they'll get to show something that wasn't planned on stream, cause they won't know that they'll make it to the stream.

I guess it's mostly my opinion, but if it'll be considered i guess it'd be really nice for the devs, since quite a few of the participants who I've talked to want to make some animation or performance or bug fixes. It's not that they're submitting a drastically different game, they are submitting a BETTER experience with the SAME GAME.

TLDR - Post-Voting Updates aren't forbidden by the rules, and if they are now, they shouldn't be, cause the updates wouldn't interfere with the voting results and would allow for a better stream and overall jam experience for everyone involved. Also banning them now would be pretty much impossible, cause not every dev is gonna see this community post.

Submitted

Maybe the mods are worried we can add something nsfw, etc. to the game that can compromise the stream

Submitted (1 edit) (+1)

I think a good solution for that would be to let people decide on their favourite games, then give the devs like a couple of days or a week to update the games if they want to, and only after that check them, so that noone gets in anything nasty.

Like, again, in the Monke Jam, Monkeet did get into the stream with an update, which means that the mods didn't check the games immediately after the voting was over, hence devs should have a period to be able to improve their upcoming "judgment by Mousey and chat day" experience. After all the monke jam stream didn't happen right after the voting period ended, it took a few weeks, so maybe with this one there should be some time as well.

I do see why now this is a complicated question, since it wasn't considered before, but i hope that if there are going to be more jams in the future, that this question will be answered in the rules from the start. Like I understand the concern of the hosts, since it's their first game jam (most of them didn't even have an itch.io account before), but the updating post-voting period really shouldn't be one of them, as it's not a problem in the wast majority of other game jams. With this one being so similar to the Monke Jam, and that one also did not have a problem with updates. :D

Submitted(+1)

There are multiple easy ways to do so even without updating while not showing any of it during voting period. If you have the know-how and planned it ahead. I really doubt that would be it though. My best guess is fairness as in keep the games the same between voting period and mouse trying them.

Jam Host(+2)(-2)

After discussing it internally, post voting updates are fine

Submitted

I'm really glad to hear that! Thank you! 馃挅

I have withdrawn my submission, the constantly moving goalpoasts and toxic attitudes of some involved has me at my wits end and I just want rid of the whole thing. Wishing the best of luck to everyone who entered and congratulations for all you achieved, thank you for all the lovely feedback on my game, and big props to mousey and the mods for taking the time to run this event! Hopefully this will all be a learning experience and things can go more smoothly in future.

Submitted

Care to elaborate on what made you leave ? it's quite a shame, your submission was really good nonetheless!

Jam Host

I'm sorry to hear that, what do you mean by toxic attitudes?

(+1)

Didn't really want to spread any more negativity on my way out, but guess I'll elaborate. The lack of rules and clarity has really highlighted to me how much people will try to take every advantage they can, be it by exploiting gaps in the wording of rules or attempting to game the voting process. "white developer" has particularly embodied this attitude, as I'm sure everyone has noticed.
It seems that trusting people to follow the "spririt of the game jam" is not enough. I find myself wishing there wasn't prize money involved, as it has truly brought out the worst in people.

Submitted(+2)

I agree with you on that most people are only after the money and try to find every possible loophole to make their game win. 

Submitted
Deleted 1 year ago
Submitted

All game developers really want to win, and send their own best work, I also want to win, I try to win,

Not really. Our team joined to have fun and to maybe get the game shown in stream.

I make good and optimal games,

Good and optimal on what metrics? When I tried your game my gpu started to sound like jet engine while games like Apex on max graphics are completely silent. So at least for performance that鈥檚 objectively false.

I want to try, and for all participants I have given a rating with Honest,

Thank you.

I want to ask what is your aim in joining the mousejam2023 competition?

To make small and fun game without stress or crunch. And maybe get shown on stream.

Of course you have to compete by sending your best work so you can be in the top 5

Maybe. Maybe not. If we happen to be in the top 5 it would prove otherwise. We just had chill time with no pressure. It certainly wasn鈥檛 everything we could have done in the time frame.

Submitted
Deleted 1 year ago

I know what you mean, he lied about rating games, he even admitted that when I called him out saying that he "actually rated my game" that time.

(+2)(-1)

Did he just delete his posts??? Or was that the mod team?

Jam Host(+2)

Locking thread since it has derailed and info is covered by pinned thread.

Jam Host locked this topic