Sorry Eiyal----1 last question (LOL!)
Given the whole "Dungeon runs" vs Upgrade [50 wood/25 cloth] + Need 1 space ("rescue" slave) so only *FOUR* early on---I assume priority, is to:
1) get materials ASAP, (Fight/get 5th slave when can)
2) UPGRADE (so 10 rooms) and *THEN*
3) work on Magic Wood/Iron wood (takes more time) for Char Upgrades.
Correct?
Do you save 1,000 gold (for D14!) anywhere?
[always tempting to buy betters weapons/armor when you can!]
So huh I'll reply in order of your posts
- I do not cook nor forge nor tailor anything as you said yourself it is time and resource consuming. My hookers spend their time working. By day 24 my top hooker gains 200ish, the 2nd 150ish and 3rd 100ish (from memory) Per DAY, the 4th I don't remember so around 500 gold/day easy. I also had already 3k+ in gold by that time.
- MC bedroom is useful, not for dates as it doesn't change but for sex. Having sex gives exp to both partners, it is still the case for a threesome ;). The exp is useful for leveling faster, faster leveling gives a boost in stats if you choose the right classes, it can even upgrade a factor depending on the class (for free!)
- Maybe I was unclear (posting late doesn't help) I don't upgrade all factors and certainly not all the way to F4/F5. If I want a fighter I look for Growth then Physical (starting with F3 but higher the better), the other factors are irrelevant (wits is good too), I do not upgrade them. I upgrade them only if I need a rounded character and no farther than F3.
- Quests, I mostly do easy and then some med (2 easy to 1 med) and yeah I skip those like ethereal/magic clothes which need to be crafted or adamantite whatever, I do look for them in the shop though. That or I may get lucky in the dungeons which you should totally buy and clear, it usually pays for itself either in materials or gold + exp for your characters.
- I upgraded the combat team in the area they were lacking to at least F2, Daisy being a mage needed more wits. I don't think I upgraded when it asks for iron woods and remember some classes upgrade your factor if you meet the requirement, others gives stats directly. When I upgraded would be the 1rst week for F1>F2 and the 2nd for F2>F3. I might have upgraded 1 or 2 hooker in sex factor, don't remember much about that. That's all, I don't upgrade much because I choose my slaves well, they are specialists in their field. Any further upgrades was through leveling up and choosing the right class to boost their expertise.
- "....so anybody with those stats can become a decent fighter/mage whatever you want."-----Mage-----Maybe. FIGHTER, NO.
Fighters depend heavily upon Physics F,---- you really need F4+ to make a good one.
I meant a decent one, I didn't say an excellent fighter and again starting at F3 (average) you can easily attain fake-F5 through leveling up with the right classes if I remember right there is1 class that give you that upgrade and a multitude of classes that gives +Physics, those go over the cap factor.
- Yeah I meant a club and it was temporary until something better drop either from dungeons or shop so yeah luck but the shop refresh everyday and I do multiple dungeons a day (not the 1rst week of course as not strong enough but at least 1 per day/2 days in the 1rst week), she is here to heal either way so wits is more important as it as a direct impact on that.
- Mansion upgrades are costly and mainly mid-game/ end-game, You must focus on the election process first to get the bank out of the way.
- Yeah scholars for healing, any classes that grants wits goes on my mages/healers so yeah thief too. Eng, trainer, Alchemist would come sooner or later but it's not a priority.
- F4 and F5 sure are rare so early on I look at F3, not lower
- Getting more than 1 char (unless you Train --a *LOT*) to 60+ Wits by D20 is pretty hard in my XP
Leveling up fast is the answer here hence the importance of growth factor, I do not attain 60+ by training alone, classes and equipment gives extra stats. Having 2x or 3x your classes by the same time makes a lot of differences after that there is a soft cap as leveling get slower and slower. Try a slave with a F4 or F5 in growth and see the difference for yourself.
- I mainly trained my core team, 4 combattants (MC included), then 2-3 hookers, the 5th combattant arrived late so was barely trained (but leveled up nonetheless). The last slave was a hooker too, not trained but equipped so she brought some gold. Total 8 slaves.
I didn't get the REP for the 3 guilds before D21, it was D24.
- I used hunters on all my combattants (shamelessly for the double attack), not on my hookers. In order to get more money you need to train/pump up their charm, it pays quickly. When I clear the dungeons/locations I loot every resources there, it gives some security funds or materials for future upgrades.
- Buying in advance insure you have enough when the quest pop up, those are rare so it won't make you bankrupt to buy one from time to time since they pop maybe once or twice per week and doing dungeons gives loads of materials, in case of need I would sell those instead of the potions. Since I don't do Mansion upgrade early I don't need those resources yet so if I need money there it goes.
- Sorry Eiyal----1 last question (LOL!)
Yeah pretty much as you said for 1-3
Yup gold and pennies are pocketed asap, eventually if a good slave show up I catch it, if the shop have something to raise charm I take it too. I don't buy better weapons and armor, certainly not before D14 but then again I generally find better stuff in dungeons runs. I try to have 2 hookers before D14. Worse case you can go fishing, your fighter will catch a crap ton of fishes and sell them off. So no I'm not troubled with the debt here, at least playing this way. I'm sure there are other possibilities but that's the style I play and like.
I don't see the urgency to get the 500 REP before D21, the bank demand payment only at D28 and it's 3k. If I don't have enough REP I have enough gold to pay them so I'm chill usually.
If you have more questions I'll try to answer them but I didn't play for a week or 2 now (busy busy). I'll finish my current run (I'm doing the ****SPOILERS**** princess arc ****END OF SPOILERS****) and later I'll make a new playthrough, maybe I'll be doing a detailed day by day report (no hour per hour please, I'm playing to have fun) and tell how it goes but it shouldn't pose any problem.
Edit: Facepalm a new version got out 0.5.4 here goes my save I guess (with each new update I start anew, I don't use old saves)
Strive-C Hooker [5.3] WT (Daisy-Mage, Rms ONLY upgrade)
[Help--"teleport"; File edit so MC can B Scholar [Dev needs to change this!] ]
Fighters (so no free staff---but can use 1 sword/Med armor)
Cheapest F4 (1st slave) (was several) W4---Dryad, 1Meat/day!
Bought: 1 wood club;
Waited until got Daisy (D2) b4 any fighting
(Quests: Changed to: W/S/M: Med)
-staff (bone--MATK19) from quest
Got Daisy D2; 1st fight: 3 back/1 front (1 staff/1 sword/1 wood club)
Daisy starts@ W-F2, so need 10 MW to upgrade (+ gold)
Extra sword from quest (but can't use it)
Tools: 1-Pickaxe (Quest);
W/o better weapons, Missed a *LOT* on dogs & Goblins;
1st (wit) class: THIEF (need them 4 locks etc)
D3---already MC leveling up faster than have good classes! (make worker? ---hi wit/low Phy, so not good) 2nd thief?
With only *FOUR* char---& NO cook, went back to no cooking; [takes WAY too much time!] (changed this after Assignment Q)
Daisy---Wits (ck) ---but, only 1 staff, so... Trade? [2 wits Char] (wits still F2)
-->> WOW! actually picked an armory! (very rare!) [Robe 4 Daisy]
Ok so far (lockpicking) better luck than some of my runs...
Upgrade (rooms) UGH. NO forge, NO hammers. (took 24h!)
D6 *STARTED* on MagicW (NO Forge, NO axes!)
(oh, "rescue" was kobold---poor stats--highest wits so set fishing (stil only 1 staff))
Daisy upgrade? (D6) per your advice, "mage" Daisy, "Hi wit" (but only Wit-10 so far--higher in Phy) Worker? (still need that Magic & Iron wood! -for other char also)
Ex why hooker bad: 43/day vs 63/day (fish) [w hi charm & Pet class!]
D7 Quests: 15 steel, Hi Phy +Archer (fighters), (+ slave Req) Steel can B hard 2 buy... [only have 2 w Phy that high..]
*IRON* for sale, but no STEEL! (missing Forge!)
"resist state" --had to sell 1 (new) slave wanted to keep -->> YEA saved by DAISY! (new WATCHDOG) (not planned but most R worth more to keep than sell...)
D7----1st useful "Hooker";
4 Day (!) assignment (UGH) [Quest]
Day 7---Had to give up on any more Dun runs----> 2 char gone on Assignments (Quests!)
no nada -0- steel yet! (upgrade forge? but best Phy worker gone!)
Forge UPGRADE: (needed 4 Quest) 54 HOURS! [UGH] -->> but no hammers.
Conclusion: [D12]
Hookers just aren' worth it---a low stat Hunter still makes a lot more than a Med stat Harlot [more if good tools]
--> *MAGES* R a lifesaver! (was already thinking this) Mostly w their Heals;
To do all the "grunt" work you still need Hi Phy chars ("Mage" Daisy still got higher Phy than Wits!)
EVERYTHING (except fights obviously) Takes longer w/o tools (isn't this also something he changed?) Upgrades already take a long time---but Much Worse w/o tools!
It's a lot tougher traveling a lot w/o collars. (miss my leather collers!) Early fights = need early weapons/armor
I actually got luckier on this run than most----*MUCH* easier to do Steel that say, Chasidy Belt(s) !!!
OH Q stats:
F--371; W--441; S--456; M--408;
(some claim that they can make it by D14 [ya would like to SEE that!] But I've never done that---not even ONCE. Best can hope for is by D21---but if you fail/skip Quests, that's unlikely also. )
Did you try with F3-5 Growth factor?
"Daisy upgrade? (D6) per your advice, "mage" Daisy, "Hi wit" (but only Wit-10 so far--higher in Phy) "
Man I don't know what to say, in my run posted below by D6 my Daisy has Wit:52 Phy:15, that's a mage Daisy and she has a Bone Club.
"Ex why hooker bad: 43/day vs 63/day (fish) [w hi charm & Pet class!]
Conclusion: [D12]
Hookers just aren' worth it---a low stat Hunter still makes a lot more than a Med stat Harlot [more if good tools]"
Again by D6 I have 2 hookers, the 1rst which is also a combattant earns 146.8 and the 2nd 54.8.
By D12 I have 4 hookers, 123.3 + 96.2 + 53.5 + 33.6 and this is with bad F in charm in the beginning.
I'll remind you that I only made room expansions and master bed, I did not made any other mansion upgrade. I do not forge anything, same with crafting and cooking. I do not have issue with gold either, I was able to buy equipments little by little.
Did my "Hooker Run" very much like you described. (1 think 1 hooker was sold for quest?]
D12---Only upgrades: Rms, + [needed to make *STEEL*!] Forge. Didn't upgrade forge till late, & only b/c of Quest.
Gr: MC-5 (don't know maybe preset, but can't change@ start)
All others (lol) are "3"--- Just turned out that way... (oh including Daisy) [8/10 Char]
The 2 Assignment Quests *REALLY* sucked! (1 was 4 days, the other 5 I think)
Was actually lucky (so f ar) "STEEL" is *SO* much easier to craft than say, "CHASITY BELT!" (but both Req Upgrades)
Did have 1 big problem----that'll be *WORSE* [UGH. Maybe should stick w 5.3? ] in 5.4.
No collars + Frequent travel, & had mult char had Obed problems. :-( [made Daisy into a watchdog, helped--Bark Bark!]
Did she cook/Fight/Train? How did you get Wits so high by D6?
I think (?) if you use a MELEE weapon in combat (ie club) it helps Physics. For Wits to improve you need a staff.
D12----My MC is above that (very easy to get MC high w good F since trains everybody) ----& ONE hi wit [F4 char] Scholar (can use staff-fights) --Fisher/Hunter (fishing Inc Wits also)
Did you upgrade any of Daisy's F stats? [Esp above "2"----Req IRON WOOD or MAGIC WOOD]
At Wits F-2, Training just doesn't help near as much (basically all XP decreased)
Oh, 1 last hooker [D-12] was making 90. A Hunter I have (-0- Wits! Fairly new) can make over 200 gold/day!
(I think I had more charm stuff but had to "sell" for Hi Sex slave Quest ----or hi charm? )
146 is a *LOT* for a D6 Hooker----does she have lots of stuff to boost charm? Or is that with "Longer Shifts" [stops XP but more production]
Ok, that makes no sense! How can a Hooker make 146 on D6, & yet much LESS on D12?
BTW that 4 Char @ ~ 76 EACH, which is very very poor production for D12 [low Phy, NO TOOL worker is doing ~130/day;]
Hunter (mentioned above)----no tool--- -0- Wits ----does ~ 219 gold /day (if I set him fishing)
============================
Anyway, hookers aside, 5.4 's gonna be a *LOT* tougher Esp on Mages (Caster LOCKED!)
Did a new post---Alchemist----Ever used?
You... did not read my full report below did you? It include saves day by day and tell all my process.
You always say you have gold problem and I show you how to solve it. By Day 28 I paid the Bank 3k and still had 2.7k gold + materials and my combat team decently stuffed. I don't struggle like you at all. In my report you'll see that I did not have better luck than you and did way better.
I don't need a forge, if a quest request steel I skip it point or I can disassemble something with the workers guild.
Growth for MC is set, no changes possible.
Early on you DON'T take assignment quest, you can't do much if half of your team is away and ealy on it counts a lot. Your progress will be hindered a lot.
Medium quests are harder to do, in my run below all were easy.
"Did she cook/Fight/Train? How did you get Wits so high by D6?"
Since you didn't read it I'll repeat it one last time.
Daisy is in my combat team. She studied 3 times, had sex once and leveled up 3 timeswhich means 3 classes > Scholar, Apprentice and Alchemist which gave her 20 additional wits thus 52 wits.
She does not cook, it's useless as it is wasting time.
Of course a club helps physics, she is a mage but when she is not healing she attacks the ennemy. I didn't have a staff yet so I do with what I have at the moment.
By D12 my MC is PHY 70 Wit 43, I did not change Daisy's Factor yet.
If your Hunter is making 200/day then why are you struggling to collect 1k (D14) and 3k (D28) for the bank?
You may have 1 hunter but I have 4 hookers by D12.
If you had read my report you would know that she was trained and equipped with 2 pieces : maid uniform and animal paws
I don't use "Longer shifts" because they won't earn exp.
"Ok, that makes no sense! How can a Hooker make 146 on D6, & yet much LESS on D12?"
She had a temporary boost, I don't remember what was boosting her
"BTW that 4 Char @ ~ 76 EACH, which is very very poor production for D12 [low Phy, NO TOOL worker is doing ~130/day;]"
They roughly earns me 300 gold/day, with those alone I can pay what the Bank ask of me, buy equipments for my combat team and make a nice surplus so what's the problem? Aren't you the one saying you have trouble to pay the Bank? That's quite rich of you.
Remind me how far did you go and how much gold did you have?
You can look I also don't have problem with obedience.
"Anyway, hookers aside, 5.4 's gonna be a *LOT* tougher Esp on Mages (Caster LOCKED!)"
Just did that, a bit of an annoyance but still able to finish it.
"Did a new post---Alchemist----Ever used?"
Yup on Daisy.
Edit: my saves are available, you can check directly if you don't believe me, my report is detailed too, I don't see I can say more.
WOW!
ok, 1st off, I apologize, i've been getting a *TON* of emails from itch, & somehow I missed one (your day by day post)
It wasn't intentional.
B4 I (finish) looking at them though:
"Attendant" remark: Actually amount of heal is based on MATK, so yes a staff makes a *HUGE* difference in healing! (+ as far as I know Wits have no impact on healing, only class + MATK)
LOL !
Easy vs Med Quests: I used to do all EASY Q (when 1st started this thread/post) Many people were suggesting the "Med" Quest (in general, more gold, + more Guild XP So I started doing a lot more of those. )
I've only started *ONE* game from scratch [new 5.4] & already have problems & don't like it!
-->> Got my butt *KICKED* by a *60* [WTF?!?] Evasion Rebel! [yes that's *SUPPOSED* to be an *EASY*! QUEST!] :-(
Maybe I should stick w 5.3 ....
have you/did you have any rare "near impossible" enemies?
I'll Check you saves & come back 2 the Servants Q. [Reread changelogs back to like 5.2 or something, & says nothing about that]
Apologies accepted.
After some testing Wits do impact healing, it is not written anywhere but it does. The same as Phy impact damages, Wits impact magical damages and healing so train your mages/healers.
"have you/did you have any rare "near impossible" enemies? "
Early on a Troll and a Golem are quite formidable foes but not unkillable if you manage to have offensive spells, I would recommend to stay away from the Ancient Jungle. The creatures there are nasty.
Assassins are dangerous but you encounter them only in Bandits Forts, with my current team I can vainquish them.
Rebels? not particularly? they are cannon fodder against my team, I'm faster, more precise and can evade them sometimes. My spells either burns them to ashes/ cut through them easily, my fighters can cut them down and tank them too.
In this version 0.5.4 foes with unique traits are indeed more dangerous, beware of them.
My combat team is enough to deal with any threats in early game (till elections) afterwards you would need to train and give better equipments to keep things smooth.
For the Guilds REP there is no notification in the changelog but you can see it in the Journal.
1st, Mostly taking a break from SC, *ESP* as dev seems intent on making each update *MORE DIFFICULT* than the last! [see my 5.4 Post on 60 Evasion!] There might be some hard-core pple out there, but there's *ALSO* some "casual" players who do it for the fun/Stress-Relief. (etc) [Maybe I'll come back & stick w 5.3?]
Trolls aside, what Unique Traits did you encounter that were harder than normal? Did they KILL anybody? [never had a *REQ* Troll quest]
I agree, Rebels normally *R* easy, *HOWEVER*, a Rebel w 60 Evasion, IS NOT! [killed most of my team!] (that's over 2x the normal Evasion of Goblins! a huge huge HUGE bonus! [to ENEMIES] ) [was almost impossible to hit! (club/knife--like yours, no advanced weapon)]
You didn't have any swords (+ to hit) I checked. (wish how I'd could see how well your "team" did against 60 Evasion enemies!)
W/o going over all you saves again---you downplay enemies & mention "cannon fodder" [LOL] ----but, at LEAST 1 died, maybe 2+
How many died on your run, & who were your toughest enemies? [including any rare/unique enemies]
Check your testing again---with *NO STAFF*, you have low MATK, = low magic dam & low healing. (healing is based off MATK)
(I do train anyway----but mages mostly for Classes [5.3--Caster, etc] *AND* everybody, for Loyalty.
"unkillable" is an interesting goal. [wait is that a WORD?!? ]
Here Chars "die" when they get down to 1 (2? 3? IDK exact # for threshold---Extreme dam & penalties)
So , say you "kill" the enemy----but they "kill" 3/5 of your team. [or even 4/5!] Is that still a "good" quest/mission?
(Note again that Ext Dam (from memory) R *HUGE* ----nerf production, can't fight, etc. )
BTW in the little i've done so far in 5.4, never even *TRIED* a Med (Bandit FORT)----as even "easy" enemies have been *SUPER* buffed! :-(
I'm guessing you trained Daisy everyday? (or at least 3x or more) [anyway the +20 (Alchemist post) makes a lot more sense]
OK, Just a *GUESS* (so far) [not even going to *TOUCH* all the issues w the new 5.4! (see new post) UGH!]
--->>> ***BIGGEST*** DIFFERENCE (so far) I know of, between how you do stuff, & how I (normally/usually) do stuff [Quests aside] is *UPGRADES*.
By the time you factor in 3-4++ Upgrades (& I bought more tools, leather collars, & worker's suits) that's a *LOT* lot more materials (or gold equivalent) by D28 [most of my oldest saves where I did upgrades *PLUS* all easy quests R deleted. (older versions have more problems w saves/imports) ]
In hindsight, it makes sense---*IF* you're doing *MED* Quests; (maybe fewer collars & no extra lux rooms?)
EASY Q's [like you did] just don't pay as much XP or gold, so everything takes longer.
Learned *LOTS* of tricks since started this thread (FYI that was over a *MONTH* ago! lol) ----but it's also changed at least 2 versions since then too. [1 of them being more Hunter/fisher for Wits & gold]
BTW did you *ONLY* do DRs [Dungeon Runs] for Quests? Did you do any Med ones, or just easy? [Easy = Goblins/Bandits]
I checked ~ every other day----& did see: At least 1 char w "grave injury" (can't fight, reduced production) [I try very hard to avoid that] & 1 "starving" (lack of food) -----COOKING is one thing I didn't used to do----but now do a lot more. (it's generally worth it---stretches food to last longer, + help Wit char get more XP)
BTW (since I see you have/got it) Is there any use for Troll's Blood?
I don't see any of your hookers made into Succubus, do you not like them?
I also only see 1 staff (I assume from DRs) you never bought a 2nd staff?!? [makes you Mages much weaker! ----ok, but also saves gold---they aren't cheap!]
(usually I'd either make or buy something---so everybody had a weapon, & then upgrade them later if the weapon was crappy... lol [I'm sure on some of my runs I just spent *WAY* too much] )
Also looks like you only bought armor for ~ half (?) your "military?" [looks like hooker/fighter/dual role]
I'm sure every little thing like that added up (I spent a lot more [or at least did on some runs] than you did---esp *EARLY* on [b4 D21] )
The "Servants" thing----is that a MIN of 300 Guild points, or what? [I don't see it until you have 336 *Servants* GPs ]
maybe that's something new for 5.4? (never saw it before, but many Servants Q [usually "assignment" or "servant wanted" ] I had to skip---they're actually easier @ *MED* lvl (w upgrades!) than some of the "easy" ones! )
"Personal Bank"----I see you too (others have mentioned having to do this----1 more reason finish Greedy Bank Quest ASAP!) also saved up the 3k gold! (several days in advance)
I started doing that later on [*BUT* if you can "*FINISH*" b4 ~ (?) D24? (D22? no exact # but the closer you get, the more you need that savings...) ]-----Mostly b4 I did a lot of Med Quests.
WOW! Where did you get your "CRAFTSMAN SUIT?" ! [obviously not from crafting...]
Did you skip any quests? [Usually for me Workers R one of the easiest ones, & yours was the lowest GP]
From my orig (very 1st) post:
"[if you're giving general hints/advice, *PLEASE* make sure is possible in 1st 21 days (fighting tooth & nail just to still have 2 sell most of what you have 2 pay Greedy BANK on D 28, is *NOT* fun. ]"
(even back then finished some of them----but *MOST* of them sucked!) -->> I think in general, you had a lot more gold b/c:
1) you did a lot of DRs (2? 3? Can't tell from you saves, But I'm guessing at least 2 easy & at LEAST 1 Med?)
[when I 1st make this thread I wasn't doing any]
2) Compared to me (or at least "back then" lol) you saved more & spent less---a LOT less. [even for armor/weapons] --> Ex: I only counted *ONE* staff, even at D28! [a decent staff can cost over 1k gold EASY! ]
Curious, did u Fight the Lich, or talk out of it? (another trick learned since then)
(only 1 char has Dark Resist----but I think the F-5 [Physics] is enough to talk out of it.
[Several char w high dam----you fought?]
Oh, the "UPGRADING" advice thing: *YES*, you got lots of gold (mostly from your DRs i think----*BUT* you also didn't finish till D28, & paid the [Greedy] Bank their 3k gold. Done (? have not kept good track) 3-5+? runs where finished *WELL BEFORE* D28, *MOSTLY*, using 1) *MED* Quests & 2) Upgrades. [Some "Impossible" Quests---either make me take way too long, or give up. But *LUCK* plays a part ----maybe even bigger in 5.4?]
With all your runs, did you come up against any unusually Tough chars? [like that EVASION 60! 1 I ran into early on!]
Oh, in case you missed it, the Hunter/Fisher idea was one got from someone else. (didn't have that 2 months ago when 1st posted this)
D14 (1k) rarely a problem, but in general (ck above) I *SPENT* a lot more than you did. (would've bought a staff for each mage; 2 Mages = 750-1k EACH, so there's another 2k gold... )
Obedience: looks like you used you maid a lot (Allure) + your Hookers (like fishers) didn't travel much. 5 member combat team [vs 6] & one *DID* have a leather collar ---but generally you have 1) Allure +2) much less travel. (Obed decays a lot faster w travel)
It's very similar to fishing tactics I've seen/used. (Except for the DRs]
Didn't saw your post as I was already writing one (I take a lot of time to write).
"I'm guessing you trained Daisy everyday?"
Nope, not at all. I have other slaves to train. At 52 Wits her damaging spells are strong enough and she heals decently.
"EASY Q's [like you did] just don't pay as much XP or gold, so everything takes longer. "
At the beginning the easy quests are there just for the REP, eventually the reward can be good like a weapon or an armor. I don't do them for the money.
"I checked ~ every other day----& did see: At least 1 char w "grave injury" (can't fight, reduced production) [I try very hard to avoid that] & 1 "starving" (lack of food) "
Twice I think my characters fells in combat, usually I try to avoid that too but well can't be optimal everytime. For the starving it was an oversight and I bought food the next day I think.
"BTW (since I see you have/got it) Is there any use for Troll's Blood? "
It is used for Alchemy I think. In the previous version I didn't have time to actually use it before the current update.
"I don't see any of your hookers made into Succubus, do you not like them?"
One of them is, I got the class late since I used a low growth character, usually I get them sooner.
"I also only see 1 staff (I assume from DRs) you never bought a 2nd staff?!? [makes you Mages much weaker! ----ok, but also saves gold---they aren't cheap!]"
Bingo, looting can give good rewards, until then a club is fine and no I never bought a staff.
My mages, weak? try them you'll see they can very much kill things. Why should I buy expensives weapons when 1) I have a debt to repay 2) I can already kill everything I see
I do at least give a weapon for everybody, kill things faster and less time spent healing.
"Also looks like you only bought armor for ~ half (?) your "military?""
Ah that was me being unlucky in the shop rolls, mostly no armor at all spawning or heavy armor that almost nobody can wear facepalm.
5 combattants are enough early game, 4 is the absolute minimum for me. Only later you'll need full team full stuffed, for now debt comes first.
"The "Servants" thing----is that a MIN of 300 Guild points, or what? "
I don't know, it's new in this version.
"Personal Bank"
I have the 3k in case I don't finish the REP quest, I don't care if I finish before or after D28 personnally. To tell you the truth, after the elections you'll have more gold than you need. you'll be more in needs of materials to craft better stuff. Gold will be nearly useless by then. Also you can take your time to leisurely upgrade your mansion and roleplay, that's where the fun is.
"WOW! Where did you get your "CRAFTSMAN SUIT?" ! [obviously not from crafting...] "
Grin obviously from looting, dungeons chests can have good surprises in them.
I skipped 2 quests at the beginning, 1 with the workers wanting a tool (never spawned in shops) and the 2nd the Servants wanted someone for 3 days.
"1) you did a lot of DRs?"
I didn't count them, it is mentioned in the logs, a couples per week I would say. I did a Bandit Fort (MED) that's where some of my combattants felled, had to retreat.
"2) Compared to me (or at least "back then" lol) you saved more & spent less---a LOT less.
[even for armor/weapons] --> Ex: I only counted *ONE* staff, even at D28! [a decent staff can cost over 1k gold EASY! ] "
"You become richer the less you spend" or so the saying says? I don't waste money, I invest where it is needed, if it doesn't improve or isn't needed I keep the gold for a future investment. I didn't need to improve my team as they kill everything I need to kill, I won't go into the Ancient Jungle as I don't need to go there, If it was needed I would have to invest in more equipments because then what I have would not be enough.
"Curious, did u Fight the Lich, or talk out of it? "
I don't make a deal with the Undead, of course I killed it no sweat.
"*BUT* you also didn't finish till D28, & paid the [Greedy] Bank their 3k gold"
I skipped 2 or 3 quests and managed to finish on the 28th day, well the payment is due at 08AM automatically and I was at the Lich location at 08AM and killed it so the travel time had cost me 3k here. If I were there at 07AM I would have finished it before paying the bank.
With all your runs, did you come up against any unusually Tough chars? [like that EVASION 60! 1 I ran into early on!]
Not particularly but maybe that high evasion foe was a unique trait? In that case it's new as it is introduced in this version.
I think you undervalue the importance of training and having sex with your slaves. Everyday I train and have sex with my slaves, it gives stats and a lot of exp which make them stronger and more efficient in their work.
For example your mage Daisy was only Wits 10 by D6, her stat is way too low to heal or deal damage with that. Mine was Wits 52 with only 3 days of training 1 sex and some combats. She earned 3 levels that way and immediately became a damage dealer with her spells even with a Bone club (value 142 gold for ref, no super expensive 1k staff).
"Oh, in case you missed it, the Hunter/Fisher idea was one got from someone else."
I was usually doing that too before the changes but well we have to adapt.
"I *SPENT* a lot more than you did. (would've bought a staff for each mage; 2 Mages = 750-1k EACH, so there's another 2k gold... ) "
Not needed expanses for combat team as proven with my run but I understand why you thought it was needed. My mages are trained, they don't rely on weapons to be strong, same with my fighters ( I wouldn't say no to free weapons thou). Meaning they are sufficiently strong with any weapons for the early game.
I would prefer armor thou because ennemies hit hard, nothing can mitigate that (some spells do...) or have a lot of HP.
Obedience
Yup they don't travel so no big obedience drop.
Travelling is not cost efficient early game. You don't have enough slaves, you don't have the classes needed to keep them obedient while they're away and you can't train them while they are not in the mansion so they do a poor job/need tools. A whole lot of negatives you can't afford early game with the debt collector right behind you.
Partial Reply:
SERVANTS thing (cause I *KNOW* wasn't in 5.3!)
*REALLY* wish he'd put that in the CHANGELOG! (with all this other [mostly making it HARDER!] stuff--that's (only?) thing making it easier. )
Think I wrote that (Succubus) b4 I looked @ all you saves... Post D20, right? [Probably the most useful thing about hookers, but it takes a *LOT to get them! ---> PLUS, looks like you never used your hookers on your combat team, right? (only for GOLD?) -- Also means they R *NEVER* @ Risk for the "death" hi dam/ etc penalty (so good insurance keep gold/production high!) ]
I too often get unlucky in (well pretty much everything lol) shop rolls. BTW (sucks dev!) Heavy armor costs a *LOT* to BUY, but SELLS for almost NOTHING! :-(
"....and no I never bought a staff." ----WOW. [1 BIG difference right there!] (need to check on that "higher wits = better healing [W/O STAFF] claim. ) Unless he changed that, I *KNOW* MATK depends upon STAFF Bonus & "Lessor Heal is 120% of MATK" (Looks like you had 3 mages, & *ONE* staff, so... ) Maybe that's another recent change???
(VERIFIED: Even W/O staff, hi wit (tested Daisy vs Greph ----your save) heals more! [32 vs 21!]
ok, in my own defense don't know what version tested this in [VERY new to 5.4] but this did NOT used to be the case! Used to be, heals only depended upon MATK (which is very strongly influenced by staffs) Nothing about that in the Changelog Either
Sidenote: Your "combat team" I did notice you don't "mix & match" (ok, Daisy) ----ie, except Daisy, NONE of your team was Workers/Fishers/Hunter/Farmer. Every class was military or could B used in fights. [BTW 1 Grave Injury = D13]
-->> What's the *EARLIEST* day you did combat? (matters a LOT in 5.4 with the Enhanced "super powered" Enemies!)
(D9 you had 3 hookers but only 3 combat char-----wait Wiki [hooker] had club, so 4 combat? [a lot of my combat----including that "EASY" quest w the "60 Evasion [UGH!] Rebel-----were QUESTS, so did them early. (b4 D14? maybe b4 D7?)
-more than one thief-----Evasion bonus?
=====================================
Thinking of Trying a Run ---Fishers (instead of your hookers)----but honestly could also be done w Worker (wood/iron), Hunter (meat) or Farmer (cloth) **CONSOLIDATE** (like you did---maybe more?) I don't usually do this either. Usually char get BOTH "Peace" & "war" classes --->>> BUT EVEN *ONE* "Grave Injury" is more than enough to kill this (CRUCIAL---esp 1st 14 days!) Production!
I take time to write too (mostly if long ones) sometimes ck notes /saves /etc)
Not sure about Upgrades. [5.4]
BIGGEST *HUGE* problem so far [5.4] has been *FIGHTS*; Even EASY Quests can have them, [new "super-powered" enemies!]
EV-60+ Yes, all the EXTREMELY tough enemies I've ran across R new in 5.4 [hence another reason go BACK to 5.3?]
Would need to check again, but your Daisy had a +20 Wits bonus (Alchemy? [NEW in 5.4!] ) and?
BTW I usually do M-5 Charm----helps w Training & *ALSO* QUESTs! [rec by others & very helpful]
"ASSIGNMENT Quests" ----Case in point, where it's *ESSENTIAL* that quest pay gold. (& yet most pay very little---you're taking a *HUGE* loss compared to having that slave doing production!)
This time this one pays better than average----but only 1 close is Daisy (LOL) so maybe forget about "mage Daisy" for a while...
Not that she's that powerful (PRE-D7) but, not avail for fights either....
Sometimes even bad luck w CLUBS! (I do not like stone clubs! Worse than no weapon [they increase your chance to MISS] )
I'm *SAVING* b4 every fight --in case encounter more "super-villains" like b4
Oh, ROOMS upgrade: Looks like you did that 2nd Week? (AFTER D7?)
What did you do w Shrines? You didn't have extra Grain/Veggies, (so no good offering) Ignore?
Yeah got the Succubus class at D27. As I said usually I get it earlier but I had a bad Growth Factor on purpose to prove it was still possible to complete the Loan Quest.
"looks like you never used your hookers on your combat team"
Only Vikki was on the combat team and then until D10 when I could afford to buy a new slave to take her place. Combat Team had always at least 4 members.
Apart from her yeah my hookers never fought, this insured a constant income wether or not my combat team did well in dungeons.
"Heavy armor costs a *LOT* to BUY, but SELLS for almost NOTHING! :-( "
You know, when you get a heavy armor in loots it's quite a nice bonus, I won't say it sells for nothing.
"higher wits = better healing [W/O STAFF] claim
Maybe that's another recent change???
But this did NOT used to be the case! Used to be, heals only depended upon MATK"
Again, I remind you that I played since the 1rst game and as far as I remember it has always been the case. I had always trained my slaves either in Phy (for melee) or Wits (for mages/healer) because those stats influenced greatly how good they were, it has been verified through many runs I did in the past through many versions . It's not a recent change at all, the fact that "Lesser Heal" heal 120% of MATK is the newer one I'd say since I wasn't aware of that before you mentioned it a few days ago (didn't read the tooltips in a long time).
"Your "combat team" I did notice you don't "mix & match"
Every class was military or could B used in fights"
Yeah I said I specialized my slaves, my combat team is my kill team, my hookers are my income generator. it is necessary because while in theory you can have all the classes, there is a soft cap as leveling get slower and slower so I choose all classes that benefit my combat team first for combat.
Why taking Farmer when I don't farm and it gives only +15HP? I may take it later for the HP but there are other classes I prioritize which gives better stats/perks. Daisy was in dire need of Phy thus the Worker class (+10PHY +5HP)
"What's the *EARLIEST* day you did combat?"
D2 for the wolf threat then D4 for dungeons.
Vikki was a member of the combat team until D10
"more than one thief-----Evasion bonus?"
Evasion and Wits, not taking a hit can be a life saver or reduce needs for healing, so generally on everybody unless I have another class priority.
"BUT EVEN *ONE* "Grave Injury" is more than enough to kill this (CRUCIAL---esp 1st 14 days!) Production!"
Yeah but not in my case, my income is assured thanks to my hookers, no hit in production even if my whole combat team get wiped. It woul be around 2 days of rest before they can go fight again, no big deal most of the time. I can still train them.
" [hence another reason go BACK to 5.3?] "
I won't bother to go back on an older version, it's not really that tough, you have to better prepare your combattants. It also gives variety in combat, I admit it may need some tuning especially on early days (maybe not spawning before D7/D10 or have incompatible traits). Worst case scenario you flee.
Daisy had +20 Wits bonus through Alchemy and Apprentice.
"ASSIGNMENT Quests" ----Case in point, where it's *ESSENTIAL* that quest pay gold.
No it's essential they pay in REP that's all you need for the Loan Quest but again taking an Assignment quest early is not wise at all, you can't afford to send your slaves away, it will hurt your progress a lot in early game.
Sending Daisy away for 3 days? 3 days is all I needed to train her and set her for combat (she began fighting at D2, training not finished) till mid-game (after Loan Quest) while your Daisy after 3 days Assignment is still a newbie incapable of fighting, I hope you trained someone else in this case or it would be a total waste of time.
"ROOMS upgrade: Looks like you did that 2nd Week?"
Began on D7, wasn't able to gather enough resources before, finished on D8.
What did you do w Shrines? You didn't have extra Grain/Veggies, (so no good offering) Ignore?
The stone altar I loot, the metal altar if I had meat I would offer it else most of the time I skip. Later if I have cloth I would offer it to the women looking altar.
I did another run from scratch, the saves are included : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xyqkgYZxHZSQpY8wVlsIjvLYuLgXTv0n?usp=sha...
It is not a day by day save though.
I did encounter some bandits with the nimble and precision trait early on D3 or D4, my squad miss a few hits but I was able to kill them, not an impossible foe to kill imho. I must say when I play normally I steam rolled them. Later (around D15?) I even encountered someone with 90 EVA, 3 mages attacking him and he met his end.
Finished the Loan Quest on D23 and had already 3.3K in gold + materials from dungeons.
Regarding incomes my best hooker was earning 204 gold/day and she could be trained to earn way more ( the cap is 210 in CHA and she is at 134). The 2nd gave 174 gold/day. For the most part I had only 2 hookers. The last 2 slaves were bought specifically for assignment quests.
Concerning dungeons, by the beginning of the 2nd week I can steamroll all the easy ones and potentially do at least 2 per day (if I don't loot but I do loot the area). For 100 gold they are worth it, I obtained great loot in there (staves, armor some made from adamantine and obsidian too, raw materials) By looting the dungeons I could if I wanted build some mansion upgrades without having to buy them in the shop.
I did all the easy quests on the notice board, no MED quests so yeah quite accessible.
I'm repeating myself here but I don't see what prevent you from having successful runs. It's all about time/resource management.
1st----D24.
Whole idea/point of this thread is to finish "Loan Quest" ASAP (Elect start/term bank loan) so don't have to save up 3k gold!
UGH.
2nd: Changelog for new version:
-Obed gain REDUCED by 25%
-Caster class now locked by Guild pts
-Skill Obed Gains red by 25%
Seems to me he's deliberately making it *HARDER*! (think I'll hold off on upgrading----play 4 fun & stress reduction, not to get my butt kicked)
So, I did a run with the new version 0.5.4.
Decided to make it more difficult for me, like not using druid on my MC (Mag 1 not enough) and be more of a fighter. In this run apart from MC and the free slave all other slaves will be Average F3 in Growth to show you it's possible, you'll still see that the slaves level up fast.
Here is the report Day by day, I can give the saves too (some days missing because forgot to save).
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rq1PVomg9HQ6hUbrDgPHVqz1blFsgIAC?usp=sha...
The report is very long so the conclusion for those who doesn't want to read : It's possible easy.
Did not get lucky in the shop for armor, first week was more difficult with only 1 healer.
New default game 0.5.4
MC Tribal Elf Phy 5 Wit 3 Cha 1 Sex 5 Mag 1
Starting class Archer
Sex Trait Life Power
Day 1 :
Visit the 4 guilds, siding with the Servants
Halfkin Wolf Eleana Growth 5 Phy 5 Wit 3 Cha 1 Sex 5 Mag 1 Tam 2
Starting class Thief
Sex Trait Life Power
Sold Bread and vegetables = 100 gold
slave shop roll was meh, bought a human Vikki 450 gold Growth 3 Phy 2 Wit 3 Cha 2 Sex 3 Mag 1 Tam 4 Harlot and Rogue class
Sold Fish = 75 gold
bought Animal gloves > 100 gold
bought Stone dagger > 104 gold
Notive Board
Workers Iron Pickaxe > skip
Servants Work away > skip
Fighters Dungeon clear > Accept
Mages Wolf threat > Accept
Trained in charm an sexed Vikki
Eleana goes fishing
Vikki Harlot
D2
Sold fish
Bought Daisy > 200 gold
Trained in charm Vikki
Sexed Eleana
Bought 1 shard life
Wolf threat cleared
D3
Trained Phy and sexed Eleana
Sexed Vikki
Vikki leveled up > Maid
Eleana leveled up > Fighter
Bought wooden club > 160 gold
D4
Study with Daisy
Sexed Daisy
sold meat > 33 gold
clear goblin cave
Eleana leveled up > Rogue
Sold loot > 266 gold
Bought slave for prostitution > 371 gold Growth 2 Phy 2 Wit 1 Cha 4 Sex 5 Mag 1 Tam 5 growth here is less important, need gold
bought 10 wood, upgraded MC Mag
used exp scroll on MC > Scholar
Daisy leveld up > Apprentice
D5
sold stone (loot from goblin cave)> 175 gold
used scroll on Oma > Harlot
Studied with Daisy
bought a bone club > 130 gold
Sexed Eleana
goes to a bandit den, wasn't able to finish in one go, have to go back to mansion
D6
sexed Vikki > leveled up > Geisha
stufied with Daisy, leveled up > Alchemist
Bought Animal gloves > 100 gold
bought 25 wood
D7
Eleana leveled up > Archer
cleared the bandit den, executed the boss since no room
bought bone medium armor and cloth robe > 367 gold
practiced charm with Oma
Notive Board
Workers Bone Pickaxe
Servants Timid average > Accept
Fighters None? maybe because didn't finished the previous yet
Mages 9 woods > Accept
Mansion upgrade Rooms
D8
Pacticed charm with Oma
Sexed Eleana
Oma leveled up > Bard
If Vikki and Oma works full time > 240 gold/ day, not the case yet for Vikki since she's needed as a warrior
upgrade finished, can accept servant quest
For testing purpose bought a slave (Ona) for prostitution with low growth 374 gold Growth 2 Phy 3 Wit 3 Cha 3 Sex 3 Mag 1 Tam 4
D9
practiced charm with Ona
Sexed Eleana
go for fighter quest
Eleana leveled up > Ranger
Daisy leveled up > Worker
fitghter quest clear > Daisy, Eleana and Vikki Down
Got Human Growth 3 Phy 2 Wit 2 Cha 4 Sex 4 Mag 2 Tam 5 > keep as hooker
D10
Practiced Charm with Trisha
For testing purpose bought 2 slaves (Larhonda(human) and Grephine(elf) ) for combat, Growth 3 Phy 4 Wit 3 Cha 1 Sex 3 Mag 2 Tam 3
Growth 2 Phy 2 Wit 3 Cha 1 Sex 1 Mag 3 Tam 3 > very bad character here
new cambattants and replace Vikki
D11
Mansion upgrade master bed
Study with Grephine
bought an iron staff > 400 gold
Sold loot > 189 gold
bought 1 aphrodisiac > 100 gold
bought grove dungeon > 100 gold
D12
Going to dungeon
Larhonda leveled up > Archer
Grephine leveled up > Scholar
Larhonda leveled up > Fighter
last level against a Troll, Larhonda Down
As of D12 my hookers earns me 123+96+53+33 = 305 gold/day so by day 28 4500+ gold without practicing more charm
Got Daisy quest
D13
Trisha leveled up > Harlot
Grephine leveled up > Druid
Sexed Larhonda
sold loot > 460 gold
bought Animal gloves and animal ears > 220
D14
Sexed Eleana and Larhonda
Trained Larhonda
Eleana leveled up > Worker
Larhonda leveled up > Rogue
Notive Board
Workers wood > Accept
Servants work 2 days > Accept just for rep
Fighters goblin threat > Accept
Mages threat wolves > Accept
bought 1 aphrodisiac
bought 1 animal ears
Servant dress for Daisy > 150 gold
Ona leveled up > Bard
cleared fighters and mage quests
D15
Studied with Grephine
Sexed Larhonda and Grephine
bought a bandit den
Daisy leveled up > Bard
Grephine leveled up > Archer for the hit chance
upgraded Phy fac for Daisy F1 > F2
Larhonda leveled up > Thief
Made the soup for the church
D16
Hookers earnings 440/day
practiced charm with Trisha
Trisha leveled up > Bard
Sexed Eleana and Larhonda
bought lacy underwear and animal ears > 270 gold
bought medium leather lower armor > 496
Guild REP : Fighter 316 Workers 130 Servants 336 Mages 407
going to the trove dungeon
Oma leveled up > natural pet
Grephine leveled up > Shaman
D17
studied with Grephine
Sexed Eleana and Grephine
Eleana leveled up > Hunter
D18
Trained Larhonda
Larhonda leveled up > Ranger
sexed Larhonda and Grephine
bought 3 aphrodisiacs, 2 whiskey > 360
bought 1 cloth pant > 260
D19
practiced charm with Ona
sexed Larhonda and Grephine
bought bandit fort
retreated before the end
D20
trained Grephine
got quest to train Daisy
Ona leveled up > Geisha
D21
Pactriced charm with Oma
Sexed Grephine and Larhonda
mansion upgrade master bedroom
Notive Board
Workers goblin threat > Accept
Servants work 3 days > Accept just for rep
Fighters wolves threat > Accept
Mages whisky > Accept
D22
Practiced charm with Ona
Sexed Eleana, Larhonda, Grephine
Bought Caster class
Grephine leveled up > Caster
D23
studied with Grephine
Eleana leveled up > Templar
Larhondar leveled up > Hunter
D24
Oma leveled up > Geisha
Trisha leveled up > Pet
Waiting for Daisy...
Guild REP : Fighter 462 Workers 320 Servants 476 Mages 523
at 8 AM 3182 gold
With new version need 3, have already 2 (Servants and Mages)
D25
Not doing much but could do dungeons even without Daisy
Train Phy Larhonda
Sex with combat team
D26
Train Phy Larhonda
same as previous day...
D27
Ona leveled up > Succubus
same as previous day
Daisy returned
Day28
At 00AM 5344 gold
Notive Board
Workers 42 breads > Accept
Fighters Dungeon > Accept
bought breads in shop
cleared dungeon at 03AM
Paid 3000 gold at 08AM still have 2705 gold + materials
Lich location at 08AM
Lich killed
Support 3/3 Loan suspended
This version made some changes but the loan is not a big problem, I was able to buy weapons and equipments no problem, you only need 2 guilds support which make it easier even.
I really don't see why you struggle so much, I even had the luxury of having some characters down in dungeons, it didn't spiraled me into defeat.
If you still have question I will answer them.
