Post by Alambik ⚗ in UNAGI | EEL-SCAPE jam comments

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You and I had the same idea : using snake as a dynamic part of the level design, allowing player to manipulate this one to complete the game loop. Your game is basically the big brain version of this concept, and mine the action one, so I'm really not surprise if you like it :)
The eels has been going through a LOT of different designs, the most important for me was precisely what you said : the affordance ( the object's sensory characteristics intuitively imply its functionality and use ), and the readability.

That's precisely why I thought :

-Wall eels = psycho-rigid squared shape with 90° moves and non aggressive color = safe

-Electric eels = chaotic sharp triangle shape with 0 predictability and aggressive color = danger

I though it will be sufficient to teach the player, but that doesn't worked for you. I will also considering what you said and tried to enhance the affordance while trying to not ruin the simplistic art style and readability. Thanks a lot for playing and for your feedback, there is always space for improvement.

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FasorFox1 year ago

It is pretty interesting how we both used Snake as inspiration and took it in different directions. I actually thought about making some kind of action arcade game, but my previous prototype and ideas didn't really click, so I went with a puzzle approach, something I enjoy a lot.

As for your logic on designing the eels, I can see where you were going with this.

I think these might be the reasons why it didn't immediately register to me.

1. It's somewhat fast-paced, so I wasn't really given much time to get used to the game.

2. I ran into the blue ones and even the red one (not the head area) and didn't receive damage or die, which led me to thinking, "Hmm. Wonder if hitting the yellow ones would be okay." (I think it might just be me being experimental since I just try a lot of things to see what happens.)

3. Maybe the jaggedness wasn't pronounced enough to warn me. Kind of appeared fuzzy from my perspective.

I don't think adding electric particles will detract from the simplistic approach you want to preserve, but, even if you don't add it, I think players will learn to avoid them after getting hit once.

So, you're welcome and thanks again for playing my game. There is indeed room for growth for both of us.

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Alambik ⚗1 year ago

In fact the electric eels body shape is pretty aggressive :

But, you are right, the thing looks more like fur than electricity during gameplay, due to the chaotic movements of the beast.

I like some of the different Snake approach that was made during this jam, your game and this one in particular : https://itch.io/jam/winter-melonjam-2023/rate/2446663 are by far my 2 favorites. Because I see in them an infinite buried potential that wasn't fully expressed during the jam. This kind of puzzler are super cool, you "just" have to make few elementary game design bricks and then you can build an endless combination of levels with them, by just adding a new brick each X levels to keep the player invested, you guys just need to make more bricks.

And if you have a really big brain you can even mix that with procedural generation, and you have basically nothing else to do apart from designing the bricks, the system auto designing itself by constraint and basic logic rules, your puzzle are just some kind of big mathematical equation.

I can't remember where I saw that (on LD community post maybe), but a nerd had analyze all the Ludum Dare winners games, and most of them appeared to be puzzlers...

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FasorFox1 year ago

Aw. Thanks. That means a lot to me.

There were some ideas I wanted to put in, but unfortunately ran out of time because I still am an adult with responsibilities. But, given some time post-jam, I would like to see them put into action.

I'm not sure about Ludum Dare, but I know I've seen quite a few GMTK Game Jam winners that are puzzles or at least require some thought. In a Youtube video by Mark Brown (the host of GMTK Game Jam), he mentioned how "limiting the players options can turn any genre into a puzzle game." Considering Game Jams give themes to encourage creativity through limitations, I can see why many winners would be puzzles.

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Alambik ⚗1 year ago

Jeez ! I was about to cite Mark's Untitled magnet game in my previous comment as a good puzzle platformer design example and also his "courses" on game design are a must watch to me. Now I fully understand "what" you are, and why your game is that interesting, have so much potential and have so much in common with this guy's design philosophy, also the art intention looks pretty similar, the "magnetic field" too.

I Love that guy and most importantly his content, and he is totally right. Hitman for ex, can both be seen as a TPS stealth action game and a puzzle game. In fact I think if we can even expand the thing further more : each little action your player make, can be a micro puzzle in whatever the genre of your game is, that just don't need as much brain processing power as a real puzzle.

And also I think puzzler are "easy" to make during jams, many of them doesn't even have a controllable character or complex animation. For example : I think you can literally remade all the visual assets of "Baba is You" in less than 1H. That's typically a programmer and game designer wet dream.

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FasorFox1 year ago

Haha. Yeah, I love the guy too. I've seen a lot of his videos, which helped make me into the game developer I am today.

And, YOu really can interpret a lot of things as puzzles, even on a smaller scale.

While it is true that you can make puzzles with simpler art and animations, I still end up torturing myself with the details because I was always an artist and I want my work the shine as much as possible, even in a short game jam.

Also, I may be missing something. Can you explain how my art intention is similar?

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Alambik ⚗1 year ago (1 edit)

I don't know I find some similarities in the way you use color, shapes, pattern, in the minimalism perhaps. Maybe it's that green checkerboard, the "Portal" empty test chamber vibes, or maybe I seeing things X ) , the old magnet game version was maybe more speaking also.

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FasorFox1 year ago

Hmm. A few things.

1. Nice photoshop job.

2. I guess I see what you mean. I am aware Mark is making a magnet game, though I didn't even think of referencing this for my design. I chose a more minimal approach due to the time limit (though it didn't really stop me from fussing over some details like animation). The "green checkerboard" is my attempt at minimalist greenery that grows on walls, though I might need to revise it should I choose to develop on the game further.

3. How in the world did you find a level that almost seamlessly merges with mine?

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Alambik ⚗1 year ago (1 edit)

As creators we are ALL inspired by what is around us, consciously or subconsciously. If I tell you to create an original fantastic creature from scratch that doesn't exist anywhere, I think you simply can't, your brain will pick body parts, colors and basic shapes it has already seen somewhere. Cthulhu is just an octopus and centaurs some man-horse, pegasus = birdhorse etc...

You were certainly influenced by Mark's videos, above all if you like the guy and his content, like I was influenced by the mario 64 eel , In fact my game will probably never exist if mario 64 wasn't.

I literally hate Photoshop, I think it's way too overkill for making pixel art and indie stuff, my digital art professor in school also traumatized us with what is supposed to be a good workflow on this piece of alien tech. The reality is you don't need Adobe for making gorgeous art : MS paint can be enough.

I prefer using the built in editor of my engine, for the more sophisticated stuff I use Paint.net and GIMP in the last resort. The side by side montage literally took me, I think, less than 1 or 2 min to make with Paint.net.

Import magnet level > import charms level on a new layer > scale the smallest layer to match the edges of the biggest one > erase the top layer at ~50% to give that smooth transition effect. > FINISH

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FasorFox1 year ago

You do have a point. I have seen many familiar elements in many games. It's just a matter of putting your own spin on it to make it your own instead simply taking the idea and using it without really understanding how and why it works.

I used to use Photoshop, but not lately. I mainly use Procreate (for hobby art) and Pixaki (for pixel and game art).

Seriously though, your montage looks like a pretty cool crossover between my game and Mark's. It's actually pretty neat thinking about how my work or anyone's could interact with someone else's. Of course, we do have Super Smash Bros. as a shining example.

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