itch.io

While not quite what you are noting, there /is/ a specific interaction with Logan if you end up voluntarily sleeping with him that is up your alley.

If you get to that point without having sex with anyone else (I believe that means 'have no sexual experience'), there is a separate scene.  

I don't know if he gets mad at you if this changes afterwards (I don't /think/ he does, in large part since I don't think the system exists to check why exactly your sexual experience is no longer zero), but having only Logan be your partner may be up your alley to attempt!

(Of course, logically, many of these problems are coming because you are being willing to sleep around.  Most of the cast doesn't attempt to have sex with you if you don't initiate, so I'm at least fairly sure that you could have a monogamous relationship with Bernard if you just consciously did that.  And, uh, didn't lose in battle to certain curse-of-lusted enemies, haha.  Logan is notable, however, as he's the one place I know of where this is expressly commented)

If you are dominant, you can also do the 'roam around' option.  If a bandit crosses you, by teaching him a lesson you boost the bandit's morale.

I have no idea if that works or if there is an equivalent if you are submissive, haha, but the roam around option is repeatable if you're dominant.  It's also best done at night, as that way you don't get any additional events interfering.

Yes.
(This does not lock you out of any of Bernard's hearts)

At the moment, you cannot.  You are in fact trapped over there.

You know. Now I'm curious - what happens if you are a virgin up to that point, and you lose your virginity to technically-Logan right there in prison, and then otherwise remain a virgin? 

That is an unusual circumstance haha.

I definitely agree haha, Logan definitely is unfair with his reactions to everyone haha.  Like really, whether or not he has a reason for it, Logan is a /jerk/.  My one complaint is that I don't feel 'abusive' is accurate... but I mean, jerk is absolutely accurate. :P

Also, you don't have to defend yourself about Gunnar either!  Honestly haha, it's totally cool that you like him and are having a blast with him. :D 

This game is awesome and is, among other things, a safe place to enjoy yourself, haha.  If you feel strongly about a character, either positively or negatively, that is a good thing!  Means Hyao is a good writer!  

I personally was pretty happy when I could at /least/ sit down to play cards with Gunnar and other guards with him acting civil in front of his peers.  Baby steps!

And I wouldn't have it any other way - Gunnar is acting according to his personality for both of us. ^_^

>About being a top, I don't know how he treats you,
<
I can tell you the answer to this one: He's basically a total jerk to you regardless, haha.  He is indeed serious when work is going on, but even then he will stop and drop a jerk statement about what you should be doing, or a jerky-lewd statement about what you should be doing to him.

Now if he didn't then do his job, he'd also be incompetent and Gunnar isn't meant to be incompetent haha, he's a talented guard with some shifty connections.  But that is a different story, and he certainly doesn't start a relationship with you and then start treating you harshly because he thinks you might like it (That would be fine).  He opens by treating you very harshly, if you like it then hey that's cool for you.

Then I feel you're not quite being fair to Logan with your statements here!

>There are a lot of way of being abusive and one of those ways it's how little he opens himself to you<

I mean that stands to reason - you're not /in a relationship/ when that is happening!  In fact this involves him expressly noting that you /shouldn't/ try to get to know him better.

> He is a mess who's trying to get in a relationship with you<

No, he definitely is /not/ this.  He goes out of his way to /not/ get in a relationship with you, to try to stick to himself, to shut the player out, even to the point of injuring himself.  The first time he really opens up is when he transforms for the first time and is absolutely terrified about being alone - if you stick with him there you can note him still being hesitant and still being 'why would you /do/ that I'm not a good person'.

He is absolutely not /trying/ to get into a relationship with you, even when he begins to have feelings for you due to your being quite selfless towards him.  Heck, the whole focus of the 'I'll get you a beer' scene is that he presumes you don't want a /relationship/ with him and just want to have sex with him due to his muscles, so he's trying to get drunk enough to give you what you're owed without feeling too raw about it.   

Him trying to have a proper relationship with you is extremely new to him, and he's /much/ more mellow about it now once he begins actually returning your affection.  Even there he constantly compares himself to the he-thinks-better-fit-for-you Bernard, haha.

If you go after Bernard first, when you tell Logan that you did that Logan is completely understanding, 'Yeah, that was the right move'.

When you go after Logan first, he is astonished, "Wha?! Why didn't you go after Bernard?  Why would you go after /me/ first?"

>when he starts opening himself up for you, I got confused on what were his intentions: he was kissing me because he liked me or because he thought that was what I wanted?<

Oh this is pretty clear too - he cannot fathom anyone /wanting/ to be in a relationship with him, haha, but you are extremely nice to him and quite selfless at that point.  Really, that's the crux of the 'I owe you a beer' scene - him assuming that the only reason you could be there for him is because you like how he looks.

Which is also a big part of why, if you take that offer and thus confirm his expectations, it hurts him /so much/.  And at that point if you refuse, that's the second time he really opens up to you, really makes himself emotionally vulnerable to you.  And also marks a big change in his demeanor towards you, since that's when you actually start 'okay this is sort of a relationship' and he starts being at least a bit more hospitable.

Gunnar is much more of the abusive partner (Gunnar pretty constantly makes demands of you whether you pursue him or not.  This is then completely fine if that's your thing, mind you, but is much less fine if it isn't haha).  I am happy with the limited 'not tremendously negative' interactions with him that happen sometimes, though!

Logan isn't really searching for a relationship with you (or anyone at the moment, he got burned) and is constantly surprised by your actions towards him, and only starts to really like you when he notes how often you jump in to help him even though (as he often notes) it's stupid to do so since he's not a good person.

...Well, before now haha.  If you do have three hearts with him, then /now/ he /is/ trying to be in a relationship with you, and I imagine at least part of it will become pretty rocky since Logan is pretty messed up of an individual.  If nothing else, I'm sure he's thinking about his previous relationship every time he does things in this one.  So we can see for the future, haha.

I'm glad to have helped Logan get more comfortable with being a werewolf, too.

While I agree with most of what you stated here, I wouldn't quite say /everything/, since uh...

>We knoe that sooner or later he will grow feelings for us.<

That part isn't true for me at least, haha.  Since another person who's pretty abrasive is Gunnar, and I am trying my best to be friendly to him whenever I can even though I honestly don't expect him to grow feelings for me.  Like, I'm also a top and do not put up with him being a jerk (particularly to anyone else; this fact is also true to Logan by the by), but I then have consciously stuck my neck out to help him out more than once.

Now, I then don't care about him nearly as much, but my ideal goal for him is 'can meet up on friendly terms' more than anything else haha.  Still, I'm definitely being nice to him!

I then only slightly agree with your last statement.  It is definitely true that Logan has the /characteristics/ of an abusive partner, but an important line is that he's then /not/ an abusive partner because he imposes on the player exactly once, and that's when you the player go after him during the werewolf event (And is, I believe, the only time he begs for help).  If anything, he pushes people away because he doesn't think he'd make a good partner at all, haha, and this is partially because he has serious anger problems, and partially because he was in a relationship and it ended sourly (that relationship also didn't sound the most healthy!)

And remember - the first time you and Logan are really in a relationship is, uh, 'right now'.  Before that he realizes he's having feelings for you, and addresses this in the most Logany possible fashion of 'trying to come over and get drunk enough to give you the only thing he presumes you want from him, since he's a mess' (And his dialogue is pretty clear about 'you couldn't possibly /really/ care').  You /really/ are helping the guy out if you go through his route.

If anything, the fact that he goes out of his way to try to /not/ be in a relationship with you helps show that he's a better person than he thinks he is. 

Contrast Gunnar for that, haha, which is part of why I'm not at all as interested in him, but can try to be nice to him all the same.

So yeah - Logan is the angry person who lives off by himself and doesn't bother people, which is different from being an abusive person who wants to take advantage of people.

Defeat him in combat and penetrate him after you do so.

Interestingly enough, Logan agrees with your assessment of him!  At least, based on Logan's in-game actions.

He's abrasive, generally doesn't touch people, and with his now ex-wife leaving him he's a very bitter man, who closes himself off from everyone around him.

Every time you help him out, he notes that you shouldn't..  That you should do what everyone does and tolerate him at best.  He tries to do everything by himself, often to the point of severely injuring himself rather than asking for help.  Logan honestly seems to believe that he should just be alone, since he's not a good enough person to deserve anyone else - the one person he opened himself up to hurt him really badly.

For me, now, my being kind to Logan in return isn't due to a challenge; it's empathy.  I'd like to help Logan trust people a bit more again, and you're rewarded for this by him getting less abrasive.  Less angry.  Heck, it gets to the point where you can have people meet up with Logan who would definitely have caused him to flip out before - but instead now he just grumbles a little, since he trusts you.  Is much more willing to stick his neck out.  He's still gruff, since he's stubborn, and you're not going to erase who he is (nor should you!), but I find it heartwarming seeing him open up.

The scene where Logan first transforms, you catch up to him, and he in tears begs for you to stay (since he believes you shouldn't and won't) since he's terrified of being alone /right now/ when he's not sure what is happening to him is one of the most powerful in the game to me.

It's then kind of neat, in my opinion, that Hyao has an option for 'Ehhh I just want a ton of sex scenes' instead, haha, as you can always just go for bottom Logan and get plenty of scenes with none of that 'needing to form a relationship with him' in the way.  As really, nobody is for everybody - some people find Caleb being a goofball to be annoying, others rather adore him for it. 

Either way, that's Logan for you.

You don't really have a 'relationship' with bottom Logan.  Bottom Logan is essentially saying 'I just want a lot of sex scenes'.

Upon which relatedly, there are a /lot/ of sex scenes with bottom Logan and, um, half the cast haha, so there have been a lot of updates dedicated to 'And bottom Logan does a thing'.  Either way, you don't get hearts with Logan if you have bottom Logan as there's no direct relationship there, just lots of sex.

Have you taken Tank to the Murcove cave, and had a scene with him upon leaving it?  Just checking, as that was something I'd missed for a long time when playing the game, heh.

In addition to what Ben Dover stated, if you're dominant, you can raise morale by doing the 'wander around the camp' option and dominating bandits who oppose you as well.

Wait, do you mean that you can't successfully hit him to conclude his challenge?  As if so, you can definitely hit him, it just is quite difficult to accomplish.

If you meant you can't /defeat/ Orgram then that is true, though.  Just making sure!

Man, this is a hard one, haha.

There are a lot of people I really /like/ that I guess don't make the absolute top cut, haha.  For example, I love Caleb, Tao, Rhot, and Tank, and if someone hurt them they'd better be /really/ good runners.  Nevermind, say, Rose or Othra, who I'm not interested in romantically but would definitely get a similar reaction if someone were to attack her.

But between Korg, Bernard, Logan, Roushk, and Scrap it's... really hard to pick, haha.

And typing this reminds me that Ste should be in the first group, adn Feliar is definitely up there somewhere, and gahhh.

This game has such fantastic characters :D

Wearing good armour will help with a physical altercation (and/or helping you survive long enough to win via tease).  Try to focus a little on health as you level up.  Finally remember - you're an herbalist!  Be sure before you set out that you have a healthy supply of strong healing potions, and then ideally some others.  You'll want to get the healer down first.

In an effort of finding 'where are you stuck exactly'.  When you try to clear the route, what does it say?

I will call extra attention to this - most people who get stuck with healing the Shopkeeper have the Heat Occasia, which is not the Spectral Syrup needed to solve the problem.  So it's definitely a good thing to check.

Many things in the game that are repeatable only work for a limited number of iterations; that one is no different. 

This is also true for things that generate like points, by the by.

The event cannot be done with bottom Logan.  Bottom Logan doesn't become a werewolf at all, and the new event involves him as a werewolf.

At the current point in game, you can't unlock that camp.  While we can presently befriend the Iron Blood clan, we can't actively befriend either of the other two (Well, besides Korg himself haha, but he doesn't speak for his clan), so that camp remains off limits.

Are you sure you didn't just save on a different page?

The other way to lose Korg is to, much later in the story, get a black heart with him.  Thus far in game, getting a black heart is an irrevocable 'this character absolutely hates you forever' sort of result.

Korg's gives you plenty of warning, though, so it's not likely you did that by accident.

When you free Korg from his cell, after a bit Victoria gets another prisoner.  That second prisoner starts the Country Road questline once freed (Which can be done without combat, as a note, which will make him happier with you).

The main thing is that if you beat him in a fight, be sure you /don't/ penetrate him.  Mutual masturbation is fine, just 'do not get a black heart'.

Then besides that, it's just 'generally don't be a huge jerk to him', even when he kind of deserves it.  When he insults you, roll your eyes but don't necessarily snap back.  Help him out when he needs some herbalism while building up Bareshade.  Don't tell Torben about his duplicity.

The meetings, I will emphasize, are not particularly 'friendly' yet haha, just a lot less hostile than they were at first.  He's mellowing.

...now if you're a bottom or female, another option is to just cooperate with him and let him be in charge, in which he will presumably be a lot happier with you quickly haha.  

Just make sure you don't get a black heart with him and hey.

It is worth noting!  As you proceed, you now can have a /few/ interactions with him which are at the very least 'not negative'.  He's still definitely being cocky, but he's at least /more/ amenable to talking to you.

Makes me feel like there might be /something/ akin to, if not a relationship, at least just friendship between the two of us, haha, despite me being firmly a top.

Unrelatedly, I have been told that at this point you can have a very different relationship with Gunnar if you /are/ a bottom or are female.  So if goal was 'Friendship with Gunnar' or at least 'Not Enemies with Gunnar' then there are two potential paths to that, haha.

(Of course, if the goal /is/ 'Enemies with Gunnar', that one is easier if you can beat him in a fight)

In addition to other suggestions, it's worth noting that that dungeon is a big reminder that 'you are an alchemist, have a lot of potions on hand'. 

Having a bunch of sleeping mist and strong healing potions can help you recover and deal with some very tough foes.  

Also, wearing good armour will help you here.  Diablosite armour works well, as does Emerine armour if you can get Emerine from 'where you are presently standing'.

Well remember, you go to the Witch, repeatedly, for help with various things - and this is 'you go looking for help'.

She does ask you for things in return, including something open ended.  But she's /tremendously/ more straight forward with you than the Nameless - the Nameless makes a bit deal of his superiority, the Witch actively helps you multiple times.

The one thing the Nameless wanted from you directly (the gem) you are forced to give him.  Thus they aren't really similar in that or most respects, haha - he treats you as though he is your superior, she is much more 'You didn't come to me to read you my life's story, you came to ask what I know about (say) werewolves'.

...now I mean, some suspicion is then well warranted, as it's always the ones who aren't actively being jerks that can catch you by surprise, haha.  But hey.

You can raise their life via winning fights against them with tease.

There may be other routes that I'm unaware of - I'm a dominant top, haha, so I don't know what happens if you don't do that.  So it may work via submitting, or raising their lust then submitting, or something similar.

Huh!  I had no idea, haha.  Consider me corrected, then! 

Strikethrough-ing my incorrect information above.

It is also worth noting that if you are aggressive towards the nymph, she will respond in kind.  So basically, uh, the more often you stab her to death the less often she'll attempt things (and will note things like 'Ugh, you, you're no fun').

Otherwise, Nymphs in particular are 'literally magic' more than anything else, and the curse of lust is clearly effecting the herbalist just like it is to everyone else around.  Any revulsion you feel is similar to how I presume most NPCs feel when you use a love potion or lust potions on them if they weren't otherwise interested, haha.

Heh, he's also pretty dang huge which helps show being at least partially non-human.  It took me awhile to realize that his metal jaw is /probably/ covering up tusks.

I don't know about it being specifically red orcs, though.  They're big on sex, but their biggest target seems to be fighting and strength more than that - particularly if their warchief is a paragon of their beliefs!

Granted, Tank does seem to like fighting as well, so the theory still stands.  Or well, at least he's reasonably concluded that 'this is the one thing I'm good at' and sticks with it, haha.

Being bullied fits any group, though - humans tend to dislike nonhumans, and both of the orc tribes we've interacted with are very hesitant about there being humans about, so being seen as 'the other race' and not being the brightest bulb himself means he's likely to run into problems everywhere.

(Of course, /part/ of this might be that I play a dominant top myself, so I don't know how he rolls in other situations, haha)

Tank is awesome.

Did you try to explore the orcish village before you had the okay to do so from Ogram?  That's the only thing I can think of.

Generally speaking, you can't save/load to change responses when the Nameless is involved, so that may not be a good suggestion.

(Edit: Apparently this suggestion is incorrect for this specific circumstance!  Nevermind then.)

I am presuming the question is 'What is Canon'.

Canon means 'official, actually part of the storyline'.  Things being not canon basically means they're just amusing side stories that aren't meant to be taken seriously.  In non-canon events, characters may act in a way that differs from their usual character, or make promises/deals/die in ways that basically aren't 'real' to the game.

(...also, even if it kills the herbalist to do so, I totally want to try to steal that shirt. > :D ) 

Now let me see if google translate butchers this too hard...

---

Supongo que la pregunta es "¿Qué es Canon?".

Canon significa 'oficial, en realidad parte de la historia'. Las cosas que no son canon básicamente significan que solo son historias secundarias divertidas que no deben tomarse en serio. En los eventos no canónicos, los personajes pueden actuar de una manera que difiere de su carácter habitual, o hacer promesas/tratos/morir de formas que básicamente no son 'reales' para el juego.

(... Además, incluso si mata al herbolario al hacerlo, quiero tratar de robar esa camisa. > :D )

Red orcs?

I actually am thinking that he's half-orcish myself though, haha.  I'm really curious how he met up with Scar!

...and I am also psyched that you can help him out more, haha, his reaction to someone being genuinely nice to him is more than a little awesome. :D 

Realistically, your best choice is to just 'be more mindful in the future whenever the Nameless is involved'.

Your game won't be ruined by your first decision, and your particular herbalist can be just as astonished as you are.

You have to basically complete the rest of the werewolf quest and most of the Bareshade upgrades (if not all).  Then you'll get the opportunity to go into that door with someone from town.

There is content at the right door in the wolves den.  Once you have completed basically the entire plot involving werewolves and upgraded Bareshade quite a bit, you get an option to go there that involves some townsfolk.

What part of the orc quest are you stuck at?  'Follow Groth'?

Hyao has noted that he would eventually like to have sprites for everyone, they're just coming over time.

If you are submissive / a bottom, you can have a more positive relationship with Gunnar (although from what I've heard, that doesn't mean he's more affectionate per se!). 

I will note, however, that you do have the opportunity to have some not-horribly-negative scenes with Gunnar provided you don't get a black heart with him - dual frotting with him, helping him with his shoulder injury as an herbalist.

It obviously will be a slow process, but there's definite room to at /least/ be friends for a mutually-a-top player, haha.  I will personally consider it a victory if I can say 'hey' to him and have him nod at me and then go about his work grumbling.