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(+8)(-43)

This was one of the worst visual novels that I ever read and I read many.

This is the story of a gutless author who wanted to write a story about a man who fucks teenagers who are like daughters to him but the author doesn't have the guts to defy social norms so they literally destroy society with a lame post-apocalyptic setting for the sole purpose of getting rid of social norms in their story so they are free to write whatever lame erotic story they want, and even under these conditions, they still make sure to make their characters relentlessly repeat that they would never EVER have fucked each other if society didn't conveniently collapse to allow them to fuck whoever they want.

The irony is that the author included this quote from Oscar Wilde into their visual novel:

"I won't tell you that the world matters nothing, or the world's voice, or the voice of society. They matter a good deal. They matter far too much. But there are moments when one has to choose between living one's own life, fully, entirely, completely, or dragging out some false, shallow, degrading existence that the world in its hypocrisy demands."

You would think that the author of this visual novel included this quote into their story because this is a story about characters who choose to live their life the way they are happy with whoever they want and reject the hypocrisy of society, right?

Wrong! This story is about characters who would choose to conform to the hypocrisy of society if society still existed.

The author chose a post-apocalyptic setting to get rid of society so their characters DON'T choose to defy society because there is no more society to defy and they make sure to make their characters relentlessly repeat that, was society still standing, they would have chose to please it rather than themselves and each other.

Therefore quoting Oscar Wilde under these conditions is a JOKE and I say: "If you would rather make society happy than each other then you DON'T deserve each other." and so I couldn't have ANY sympathy for them.

Moreover I couldn't take ANY character seriously anyway because they are supposed to be americans and they all look japanese because the author was dumb enough to use Honey Select for an occidental setting!

And I can't even justify their choice by their need of an affordable characters generator because I keep seeing the same looking characters in many visual novels so I just know that there is definitely an extensive graphics library available for visual novels, nothing could possibly justify that this author chose a cheap japanese characters generator for an occidental setting, this is just one of many evidences of their utter incompetence.

The protagonist wears glasses, there is nothing wrong about that, if he didn't wear them ALL THE FUCKING TIME!

Don't even try to make me believe that he sees shit with his glasses in front of his eyes in a hot shower full of vapor!

The author made the two main female characters 18 years old.

Do you know why 18?

Because this is the legal age of sexual maturity.

If legal majority was 13, they would be 13 years old, because they are the youngest legally possible.

That doesn't help when the author keeps making comments such as "Yum, look at this pretty tight teenage pussy...", how the hell am I not supposed to feel like a disgusting pedophile when I read such disturbing thoughts?!

The author bothered to make the girls legally major but they keep making us think of them as teenagers, implying children!

The main female character is the most insufferably boring of all!

She is so predictable, so annoyingly single-minded, every time she is alone with the protagonist, there is only one single thought in her bland mind: sex!

And all the time she is not alone with him, she laments how she would love so much to be alone with him, annoyingly single-minded I tell you.

She doesn't have any meaningful role in the story beside being a "horny teenager" who wants to screw her "dad" all of the damn time.

From when we quit Grantsboro, I just had grown so fed up with her that every time I was alone with her, I thought "Oh no, not her again...", I just couldn't bear her anymore.

Eventually, I just skipped all of her sex scenes because there are simply too many of them, I made an overdose of Carol!

The author allows polygamy.

HOWEVER, they still try to impose monogamy on us because they make the protagonist treat Carol as his owner and he basically keeps repeating "just say the word and I will throw everyone else in the trash" as if the author wanted to guilty us because we chose to return the feelings of more than one girl, they allowed us polygamy while they kept pestering us with monogamous mindset.

If you choose polygamy, that's because you are into more than one person who also are into you and to be fair to everyone, there is no favorite, no number one, no queen, and you definitely don't offer to reject the others to one of them, you leave that bullshit to monogamy and therefore the way the author treats Carol is frustratingly unfair to the others.

It's funny how the protagonist keeps repeating many times to Carol: "just say the word and I will stop everything with everyone else" but he never says this in the presence of anyone else.

A shame, because I just would love to see how the women who love him would feel if they hear him basically tell Carol "just say a word and I will throw all of these fucktoys in the trash if you want me for yourself alone because I don't care about hurting their feelings, I care only about you"...

And this is one of the many reasons why I couldn't have any sympathy for this hypocrite protagonist because he says to more than one girl that he loves them and right after he says to one of them that he is ready to break everyone's hearts if she has a selfish whim, how could I possibly respect such an uncaring hypocrite?

The sex scenes are voiced.

But the author uses the same 3 voices for all female characters and so the voices make the sex scenes even more repetitive and boring.

The title of this visual novel is "Now & Then", and once you will find out why this name, you will hate it!

Because when you are in the "now", the author keeps breaking the pace of the story with annoying flashbacks of "then".

I don't mind some flashbacks if they are in moderate quantity and interesting.

These are neither.

Because you are reading the story of the current events, on the edge, when the screen suddenly turns black with a big white "THEN..." and a mellow guitar starts playing to tell you a boring past event that you couldn't care less about and it interrupts this way ALL OF THE DAMN TIME, you can never get into the mood because the author keeps breaking it with their genius idea of switching at the worst timings between "Now..." and "Then...".

In conclusion, after having tortured myself to read this visual novel to the end in the vain hope that it would grow better, I warn you it doesn't, there is nothing worth keeping in this utter failure and I now believe that ILS Productions actually stands for Insufferably Lame Stories and Productions.

(+9)(-5)

Who?

(+8)(-5)

When?

(+7)(-4)

Where?

(+3)(-6)

Cope

(+4)(-6)

Seeth

(+8)(-5)

18 and 19 year olds are teenagers AND LEGAL ADULTS! That your thinking goes to underage girls, is a YOU problem, not the author's/creator's problem

(+7)(-20)

You justify that these girls are adult because "they are of legal age", implying that your conviction is not your own, you mindlessly conform to a world's perception that legal dictates.

My point was that the author made the girls to be the youngest legally allowed and wrote about them to make us think of them as kids, as I said, if legal age was 13 then they would be 13, because they are just that: the minimum legal age.

(+8)(-3)
(+8)(-5)

your an idiot and bias asf man get a life your literally the only person complaining here you reddit moderator neckbeard looking ass sitting behind yo screen you fucking bigot like everyone said its a YOU problem not the creators if you think you can do better make you own you fucking idiot this is hard fucking work perfection at its finest ik because i make these too so shut you dumb ass up don't read it if you don't like it deal with it i don't see you putting in the time to make something like this to put in hours to create content you gotta lot of nerve to say the things you do insecure bitch ass go cry to your mommy  bitch

(+6)(-15)

Maybe I will bother to read you when you bother to express your thoughts in an organized manner, not before.

(+9)(-5)

Like i said make your own if YOU think you can do better theres a difference in actual criticism and just straight up being an asshole  to someone who made something that everyone liked but you because you think you know better than everyone shut your karen bitchass up no ones gonna take you or your criticism seriously if you go about it by  being an asshole and being disrespectful 

(+1)(-1)

I haven't played this game, I just found it when something I was reading on the internet referenced it. I really understand where you are coming from with the critique if what you are saying about this game is true; however, I think maybe you are ascribing motives to the author that are not really representative of their intentions.

Specifically, I am wondering if it has ever crossed your mind that this VN/game was written by someone who did a little market research, and understood what kind of story was most likely to be popular amongst people who routinely pay money for Adult VNs? 

It seems to me that you are making claims about the type of person this is, and what his or her feelings about certain types of real life sexual relationships actually are; and here is the last thing I will say... while I do not normally point this sort of thing out to people, even if the content of this VN represents a real sexual fantasy of the author, you seem to be just fetish shaming. 

For example, there is a lot of robust academic research that suggests that a significant number of women--and we are talking about a large percentage--have sexual fantasies based around rape or non-consent. By extension to how you are acting here, it seems like it is your position that merely having that fantasy means that they condone rape beyond the realm of fantasy. This clearly is not the case, and with this in mind I sometimes find it extremely problematic when I encounter people who judge people so harshly for sexual fantasies.  Just my two cents.

(+5)(-3)

The criticism sounds valid, and I've seen no convincing retort in the replies. Thanks for the warning.

(+5)(-1)

I haven't played this game and this guy sounds a bit too personal in his criticism.   That said, it does sound like a bunch of valid points that nobody has rebutted.

(1 edit) (-5)

It's a spoiler bro he didn't even bother typing a "spoiler alert" before commenting, that's why you should play the game first before reading the comments, and he's just hating. The dev give he's blood and sweat to make this game, and I know we have our own opinion, but if it's just pure hate you should just keep it to yourself.

(+6)(-1)

Funny that he pointed out a lot of well thought and valid objections and your response is "he's just hating."

Probably easier for you to do that than to actually read or understand them. Maybe if you did you could actually have something of substance to rebute them with rather than an emotional outburst.

(-4)

Kkk

(+2)(-1)

Solid critique. The "these girls are like my daughters and I really want to fuck them" storyline is always creepy and cringe.

Thanks for the thorough review.

(-6)

Kids shouldn't play dis game, if you can't take this game, how about you play NTR'd games.

(+3)(-1)

Do these comments hit too close to home for you? You're defending this storyline quite fervently.

Not sure how your reply is relevant to my comment. There's nothing in this game I can't "handle." This is far from the only game with this plotline. It's always gross. Simple as that.

I don't know how you think the alternative to this is NTR.

There're quite a few games here that are a simple story of a groomer where the game justifies the grooming with some "horny girl" BS. It's the groomer fantasy played out: "We're consenting adults (now). She wants it." 

Catering to this particular market because it's what they're looking for is no excuse.

(-3)

Ah  okay.

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(+1)(-1)

I have not seen such a string of missed points, non-sequiturs, and straw men in a long time. 

I applaud you for stepping up to "debates" rather than just insulting. It would just be nice if you were capable of actually having a debate. 

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(+2)

I don't think you realize just how much you're projecting when you speak of passive aggressive blindness.

I examined all his points and your counters, and all of yours were invalid in premise, logic, or both, while his made sense. 

Deleted post
(1 edit) (+2)

Don't worry about my road when you have already gone off the far end.

And no, you can't call me "unaccepting" or "black and white" for rejecting your non-sequiturs and straw men. That's like calling someone a picky eater for rejecting a feces sandwich.

(+2)(-1)

Hey, thank you for your support, I enjoyed your retort and answered him myself which I invite you to enjoy as I enjoyed yours. ๐Ÿ˜‰

(+3)(-2)

Well, look at yourself the superior mind who steps up to set things right for everyone because everyone else but you is "too fucked (What's wrong? Scared of speaking the actual word? ๐Ÿ˜) in the brain to properly debate me" because only you know what is proper debate, gosh, your humility is an example for all. ๐Ÿ˜

You created an Itch account just for me? Aaaaaw, that's so romantic! ๐Ÿ˜Š And if that doesn't work between us, at least I made you have an Itch account.๐Ÿ˜‰

After having read your "counter-points", I have to ask: Did you actually read this visual novel? Because you missed all of your marks, that's hilarious! ๐Ÿคฃ

If you ACTUALLY had read this visual novel that you defend with such (pointless) passion then you WOULD have read its characters say themselves that if society didn't collapse, they would have repressed their feelings for each other to conform to social norms, this is not "my own wrong take on it", this is their own words. ๐Ÿ˜‰

They already were aware of their feelings before the collapse of society and of its norms but they pretended to not notice for the sake of pleasing society whose collapse granted them an opening as you said, otherwise they would have chosen to make society happy rather than making each other and themselves happy, that's why I claimed that they don't deserve each other if they don't even choose each other over a bunch of strangers.

That's so funny how you accused me of being biased and your following sentence starts with "Illusion games are the best". ๐Ÿคฃ

Especially since that's completely wrong since I use to read adult visual novels made with another, more realistic graphics library, I know that's the same because they all look the same, unfortunately I still didn't find out WHAT is this amazing graphics library commonly used to make so many realistic looking visual novels! ๐Ÿ˜ซ

And even among Illusion products, Honey Select is the worst because it makes everyone look japanese no matter your characters' actual ethnics, which ruins all credibility if your characters are not actually japanese, which is the case right here, at least it is not worth Koikatsu which makes everyone look like anime characters therefore less realistic but at least not necessarily japanese. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Now you didn't only not read the visual novel but you didn't actually read my comment either, which makes me wonder about your ability to actually read, because you foolishly claimed that I "flexed a problem with wearing glasses", which, once more, is completely off the mark since I specifically wrote "The protagonist wears glasses, there is nothing wrong about that,", see? ๐Ÿ˜‰

I also explained in details how the author treated the girls like "teens", I specifically explained how the protagonist's thoughts such as "Look at that pretty and tight teen pussy!" made me feel like a pedophile and made me feel sick and 18 is a commonly chosen age in porn games whose creators want to make their characters the youngest possible while being legal, like when you play a porn game whose characters clearly look like children while the disclaimer claims "all characters in this game are the legal age of 18" that no one believes and everyone is aware that's bullshit to be legal, 18 is the code to say "They are actually children/teens but shush, let's pretend they are adults because they are 18, wink wink.". ๐Ÿ˜’

Oh you are so very wrong because I actually disagree with that "legal age" bullshit as if everyone is a child at 17 then in a single night, shazam, they are adult because they are 18, administrative magic never ceases to amaze me! ๐Ÿ˜ฒ

I think it is utterly stupid to set an age to define adulthood since maturity grows with knowledge and experience and everyone is not the same. ๐Ÿคจ

I think we would be smarter to set a test of knowledge and autonomy to acknowledge official adulthood no matter the age, only a passed test would define adulthood and that would make much more sense than "You are 17, you are a kid. You are 18, you are an adult. That's administrative magic for you.".

Indeed, I know, so what? Do you think such a society whose males' only purpose is to work to sustain a family and females' only purpose is to be breed to produce more workers is desirable? Why do you think this was abolished in the first place if that was so great? ๐Ÿคจ

Nice try, too bad it is a missed shot again since this visual novel is all about sex all the time and nothing else and if you are fed up of having only sex all the time and nothing else and choose to not have sex then you have nothing at all because this visual novel offers you nothing but sex all the time. When your options are something or nothing then there is no actual choice as there is no other option other than one thing or nothing, there is no other thing.

Wrong, very wrong, because I NEVER EVER chose to make Carol my queen, my owner, and treat all of my other lovers as disposable, I hated that and that was the author's choice, not mine. ๐Ÿ˜ 

Sigh, listen, I use to read MANY adult visual novels and most of them don't have voices, only music to set the mood, animated graphics (of variable quality) and texts (of variable quality as well) and that actually works better than adding cheap sound effects and voices which not only sound off with the scene but also loop during all of the scene which makes it feel mechanical and lose all credibility and immersion. ๐Ÿ˜’

The only effect that the flashbacks had on me was to ruin the mood because they kept pulling me from the tension of "Now..." to throw me into the mellow of "Then..." all of the time and made it impossible to get into the pace since the author themselves broke the pace all of the time, that is one of the worst story designs that I ever experienced.

Moreover, these flashbacks were completely useless since everything relevant actually happens "Now..." and nothing of note happened "Then...".

What insults are you talking about? ๐Ÿค” Also you never cease to amuse me accusing me of insulting when your first sentence was "Since everyone here is too fucked in the brain to properly debate you, I created this account to do it myself just for you."! ๐Ÿ˜‚ By the way, you didn't even insult me, you insulted everyone else, I think you are the one who has no more friend here now. ๐Ÿคฃ

Get a life.

Is that it? Your only reply to everything I said is "Get a life"? Well then, if we only need to trade advice then mine to yours is: Get a mind so you actually have something to speak. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Its more than enough for you ๐Ÿ˜‚