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digbigson1 year ago (12 edits)

[Edited some typos and added detail around overworld dungeon sprites,  skill trees - and their relationship to story themes and narrative mechanics]

[Spoilers]

Wow, what a change! A much smoother and more calculated experience! I won't be able to look at this again until next week, but the experience has shifted significantly (for the better). 

Bugs

  • I forgot to mention that the area where you meet Jean/Mixie has no encounters if you are on the 'modern' encounter version - and my memory from 3.0 remembers some flies in that area teaching a couple lores. Could the frog sprites be an encounter? Havn't faught any gobins or slug mages yet, and they are passable as frogs.
  • Same issue with Nimfu's tower.  What about 'shadows' on the floor for 'mob encounters' - akin to what you placed in the secret library to get Deis?
  • You mentioned limited sprites in BOFII - agreed, the suggestions I gave were based on what I remember to be available in BOFII's field (Gonghead & BugBear from hunting grounds, there's a paladin sprite from underground Eva church, cockroaches & flies from simafort, even a static Lizard sprite at the top of Evrai). I don't remember much from BOFI in that respect (mice, cochroaches, frogs, Bleu's Spirit guardians, the Gremin sprite from Robot & Gust, various Dark Dragon soldiers, and... typhoon bug from the Prima? Actually, for underwater segments, could a transformed Manilla fish sprite work for encounters?

3.2 Balance: [Up to and completing rescuing Suzy the pig]

  • Progression was much smoother. Since I know the original game front-to-back, an increase of difficulty/strategy is attractive and rewarding. It also fits with the idea of 'modern encounters', so I can plan the terms of engagement. I finished the first section at Level 5 - which was perfect. 
  • Due to low rewards of Zenny and Exp., I felt the incentive to clear the township house, the beginner quests, and the hunting grounds. How that flows on through the rest of the game, I'm excited to see as this develops (in the meantime, you've added the BOFI Ryu where players might need a boost in stats).
  • I still 'cheated a bit' in selling a few yum-yums, but 500z each is more forgiveable and, now that the strategic elements have all changed, having relics and defensive equipment was a must. 
  • thrilled to see you implement the oils idea. Again, made fighting mobs part of the strategic plan towards prepping for boss fights. Used the freeze oil for the assassin quest in Hometown, flame for the cockroaches and it gave Ryu some strategic value. 
    • Could the Ranger skill tree consider changing a few skills to increase potency, duration, or 2nd tier effects of oils? For each skill tree, there are some skills that fit into the 'why bother' category. Like the first skill for ranger that is a straight +50 to health. 
    • You've already got a 'camping mechanic', here's a nice reason to expand on it as a zone you can wrap to and cook. Perhaps, like BOFIII/IV,  recruited/guest characters are visible and continue to add value via:
      • Guest progression reminders/feedback  (like St Eva church)
      • Maybe Bow helps you craft poisons and antidotes, Sten helps you make elemental traps
      • Rand/Katt sells foraged goods?
      • While that might step on the role of township, these vendors could also be available here (via same character or another npc)
  • I knew to upgrade Ryu for Dragon Guard, and ensure that he could take some hits for Bow. The 'guard' command is fit for purpose (increasing CP). I still went to Mt Fuji with the upgraded weapons [Lucky Bow/Wood Sword], so I can't say if it would have been too tough if I hadn't, but I really liked that I needed to prepare ahead. 
  • I 'had' to use Bow's hunters paw for a counter battles - the group of five cockroaches, a group of zombies - and that's great. Healing consummables had a role early. 
  • First zombie encounter saw Bow die, and me escape - that was a nice early exposure to how I might need to strategise here.  Backtracked to Hometown after I got some Zombie initial monster spoils to make some oil in order to delve deeper.
  • Harpy fight was.... fun! If they had focused on me exclusively, I may have been toast, but the back-and-forth fight kept it interesting and I think it lasted somewhere between 8-10 rounds (compared to 3-4, that's good!) Old version, I was levels 10+ here, now I'm Level 4 - great. 
  • Cockroaches were a battle of attrition as fights are toughest at the start when there are lots of mobs. When you have back-to-back fights and autosave - players can find themselves in a bind if they move from one fight to-the-next at low HP/MP. This happened to me, didn't keep up Ryu's health, and so had to start the second fight with Big Roach all over again. Auto save keeps my HP/MP stats the same, so I can see potential soft-locks whereby I enter the next round with critical health and not enough speed/resources to do anything. While I like the added challenge of this sort of gauntlet, should autosave stop triggering between boss sequences, so if we die, we have to start from the beginning (and manage our resources appropriately)?

Ryu Skill trees (lots of suggestions)

  • Ranger
    • Suggestion of expanding the focus of oil,  attacks, and options for GUTS? Guts = a range of focused tier 1, tier 2 upgrades to specialise in: counterattack up, add MP, add HP, siphon from enemies (or allies), cleanse status debuffs, charge next attack.
  • Light Dragon
    • The current progression forces me to have each elemental before I can upgrade individual elemental dragons. What if these were exclusive branches? Or at least the elemental dragons were branching paths that converged again at the final tiers? Meaning, I could invest 5 skill points into Flame dragon buffs without unlocking Ice Dragon, and then go back after Fire mastery, and unlock Ice. Perhaps offer an exclusive 'either' Wind or Earth dragon [support vs endorance]? Maybe these Wind/Earth aren't separate transformations... but Dragon Gene/Essence abilities that would go across transformations? 
    • I think there should be greater penalty for using and sustaining dragon transformations. Could breath attacks cost CP, thus Dragon Ryu cannnot reliably deal special damage each turn?  What if Dragons have a  single target [Elemental Claw] Attack, and a multi-target [Elemental Breath] CP? Once transformed, Ryu cannot directly select alternative transformations, but actually needs to use "Revert" first? This would be more in line with BOFI, III, IV and mean that there is a two-turn transition penalty to changing elemental strategy.  Also, unlike BOFIII, Ryu wouldn't automatically "Revert" at low CP (keeping to his current mechanic), he would continue to have the basic  single target Elemental Claw] and he would occasionally have to [GUARD]  to recharge breath attacks. Perhaps the breath attacks are really expensive and do not lend themselves to 'early battle' access.  Progress through the game/skills would alleviate that somewhat. Perhaps a Tier 2 or 3 Light Dragon is BOFIII's equivalent of Trigon, giving him access to the primary elements?
    • Could the WrymGuard paladin style skills be shifted here or Ranger to build a theme around party support?
  • Dark Dragon
    • Would the BOFII dragon sprites have potential to find a home here as the instant nuke abilities that came at a significant user or party member cost? This would be a nice contrast to Light Dragon which rewards patience in accumulating CP for big breath attacks.
    • Alternative, maybe  an ability with a charge-up or party member HP/MP siphon cost that is released when Ryu reaches critical HP, party members die, or a two turn wait? (would make Bow's story role quite tragic, if so (being a loyal but broken dog)- but fits into Barubary's morality of might make right and evolving through the suffering of others/self)
    •  Maybe Ryu has 'barrage/confusion' abilities that give him extra attack commands, but in berserk and can target enemy/ally alike?
  • Could Ladon or a late game NPC reset skill points if the skill point allocation was tightened? 


I guess, what I'm suggesting here is that:

- Ranger has value and importance to all character playthroughs and styles, with a range of attack/support/debuff options. Essential for everyday mobs, and feeds into a range of party roles and boss strategies.

Following, game progression allows mastery in one of the below, but locks out/limits the other. In essence, its a sort of 'paladin/dark knight paradigm for Dragon abilities and class role'.

- Light Dragon is elemental attacks, with party support. More defensive/long battle design - focusing on CP charging and consumption for AOE elemental. 
- Dark Dragon is necro/dark/poison/berserk/non-elemental nuke damage that is not party friendly. More aggressive, high risk/high rewards playstyle. You can still build as part of a group-party adventure, but now party members are more expendable resources, rather than allies (party members using HEXES, regens and elemental Bubbles to act as energy sources/conduits for Dark Dragon?). 

-Perhaps some characters have less to offer a Dark Dragon Ryu? Perhaps its too risky to throw a low Defense/HP character like Katt alongside him?  Or at least she can't survive a long boss battle alongside his siphoning presence? To keep with man's best friend theme, maybe Bow's "Hunters' Mark" acts as a sort of "Influence" skill we see in BOFIII where it is used to manage Rei and Failure/Infinity Ryu? For Hunter's Mark, it adds 'TAUNT/AGGRO" status to enemy target, drawing attacks from enemy and Dark Dragon Beserk Ryu? Not enough to focus all of Ryu's barrage attacks, but maybe enough to mitigate the some of risk? <-- Great for large group mob battles. Maybe Jean/Rand are HP cattle for Ryu where dark breath and dark claw attack draws and expends ally HP?  <--- Good for single target Boss battles, and converting single ally HP to AOE enemy damage via Dark Breath. Mixie/Nina can be a sort of mana battery for big attacks that use MP. Nina uses bubbles to shield party against Dark Dragon all target AOE abilities, or provide a drawpoint for Ryu's siphon requirements without harming party members?

For story purposes, as the game progresses, Ryu's Dark Dragon abilities become too costly in being able to keep himself and party members alive. If he cannot siphon from party members, he draws from his own HP/MP essence? Battles might be shorter to reflect this, sacrifices greater. 

It's like how Agni was presented in BOFI - a fusion of all characters lending their strength to Ryu to defeat Tyr. This time, however, Ryu draws from allies, transforms, but allies are still present on the battle field in critical condition - and Ryu's subsequent breath attacks hit all targets on field. Maybe the end light Dragon ability is a 'successful' fusion, like BOFI, or some act of self-sacrifice to empower allies (thinking about Ryu II's scream use of infinity before Deathevan. 

-It would be special if the transformation towards the Dark Dragon 'berserker state' took inspiration from: BOFIII warrior gene/ BOFIV/ or BOF:DQ. Might be as simple as a sort of palate re-skinning of BOFII Ryu's battle sprite. 

Integrating Light/Dark Dragon to story and economy:

  • You have this morality currency that pops up (some sort of 'heart' item?). What if this was expanded? Good story actions and battle abilities reward you with radiant hearts vs poisoned hearts? Collect so many, you can trade in for thematic Dark/Light weapons/items/spellbooks: such as Kaiser vs Tyrant final Dragon Tiers? I
  • You have Lin/Nina romance options, what about party mutiny/abandonment? Could you chase away a character? BOFIV had an ending where you fought your party members (if you sided with Fou Lu), I've already had to fight Sten and Katt as part of recruitment - what if I could be compelled to do so, again? Maybe the character quests that pop-up mid/late game have a Light/Dark dialogue option at their conclusion - which develops towards different outcomes?

In closing, the skill tree is already exciting, but if you wanted to expand on it, there's a lot of ways it could support the integration of story themes/party morality choices/mechanics. 

Thanks!

Reply
knightmarish_Games1 year ago

Thank you for his report; I will respond shortly as work has crept on me this week/weekend.  Just didn't want you to think I forgot about your report! :)

Reply
knightmarish_Games1 year ago (1 edit)

Great idea about the bog. Added monster encounter in with frogs.

Nimfu’s tower not having monsters is actually a design choice as I wanted to have at least 1 puzzle dungeon in the game where the challenge was solving the puzzles floor to floor vs monsters.

Also, I am impressed and find it refreshing that someone else knows the game so well. The original reason why I stuck with zombie sprite is the size difference in some of the monster sprites. I was afraid it would look to off-putting. Like the gonghead, roach, zombie, and even lizard. I’m going to look into updating the monster sprites. I’m actually working on sprites for my BOF 1 game, and I know it has a lot of monster ones as well so I can see what will work there.

The camp and cooking idea is a good one as most BOF games use it. I guess I’ve been holding back because I eventually want to rework it as I want every character to have romance/dialogue scene like Katt/Lin. Having each character contribute in someway is also a good idea.

Going to revamp Save a bit to fix the bug that is occurring, as well soft locking on multi-stage boss fights.

Regarding Dragons: The whelps are single target dps, while the adult forms are aoe. The damage modifiers are a bit different, but I do like the idea of adding other Abilities like “Claw” to each form. I do like the idea of specializing in one type of dragon vs all. 

Thank you for such an in-depth bug report and suggestions. I know I didn’t address every suggestion, but I read them all and am sorting through them. I really like all the ideas that you are throwing out here and will play around with them to see how they feel. A lot of these are really good quality of life changes. I’m going to work on the game today and get a new patch released this week (I hope) as next week as work will be keeping me busy until the weekend.

Reply
digbigson1 year ago (3 edits)

With thanks and ongoing feedback (Spoilers for BOF Series)

 I have really enjoyed this dialogue and continue to be excited to see the enthusiasm of your project and willness to try new ideas. Thanks for making me feel apart part of that process. Each update has certainly added a lot of QOL improvements. Amazed to read that you intend to tackle a reimaging/remake of BOFI – it has yet so much untapped potential and would be equally interested to follow that work.   

 As I see you are going for an ambitious 4.0 update, and that changes to the skill tree will feature on this. I look forward to trialing that, when released. A lot of my suggestions aim to build on what was previously discussed, or considers ‘what else can benefit’ from the shifts already signalled across combat balance and progression. Even though I haven’t made it past the Tunlan quest in my 3.0 playthrough, I talk alot about party character roles and battle mechanics below, based on that mid-game knowledge.

I got hit with the autosave bug hard-lock after HR fight (which you are already looking into) and thought I had enough feedback to offer the Bugs/Suggestions below:

Bugs: 3.2

  • Bookshelf Loot in Ryu/Bow’s lodgings does not work
  • Coursair’s Item shop (left vendor – Consumables) not accessible  
  • Losing against HR in Colleseum does not trigger game over – intentional? I simply found myself in front of HR with HP (and maybe lost any consumables from the initial round). He was hard to beat as a Ranger, easier as a Fire Whelp (not sure what the stat boosts of transformation are, but my evasion as a Fire Whelp seemed to perform much higher).
  • Bunyan’s ‘Overpower’ action does 1 damage, could this instead be a minor strength buff for him? That said, he is currently a challenging encounter – bleed via shock oil is a really effective strategy for ‘Ranger’ Ryu.

3.1 (probably not yet fixed)

  •  In my second playthrough (3.1) – I went for the Log Cabin/Rural village style. I recruited the painter and when entering/leaving his home, I would warp to another exterior location (at the other end of the zip line).
  • If you select the Painter in Capitan, does the Muscle Guy who toggles random encounters disappear? I thought he was upstairs in a Windian home – but couldn’t find him in 3.1, after recruiting him in 3.0. Are there certain compatibilities between carpenter styles, specific homes and tenant recruitment?
  • Deis’ overworld sprint seems to resize between X and Y axis movement.

 

Suggestions

 

Zones and Overworld adventuring

o   Let’s get cooking! I had to backtrack to the lodgings in Hometown to cook for Tag Woods and Coursairs. What if town inns/pubs had a designated cooking hearth? Sounds like an expanded camping mechanic is going to support this (exciting) – but I wonder what benefit, if any, will there be to stay at a local town’s inn?

o   Nimfu’s tower. Having a puzzle tower (and puzzle mechanics) are staple to the series so its good that certain zones can be devoted to problem solving. This is partly why I opted to chose ‘modern encounters’, over random. In the OG BOFII, Nimfu’s tower employed an ‘encounter trigger’ when trying to open a sealed wall. Right when you entered the tower, I think, you had to press the button multiple times while Nimfu encouraged/dimissed your attempts to gain audience with her. The role of (some) mobs in this space can help to prepare players for the upcoming boss difficulty, revealing the dungeon’s thematic focus (magic vs physical, elemental vs status debuff).

o   Scale of adventure. As the story components develop – will there be any thought to expanding overword landmasses? It would be nice to cross the desert to Highland/Thieves’ Tomb. What ever happened to Wisdon that Deis decided to downsize? Are the nomadic Aradians still drifting around? BOFI and BOFII were the easiest to theorycraft the changes of the world between the two titles, and continuity call backs between the two (including geography – are nice).

  • One thing that I really appreciated from the first initial playthrough of your mod is that the size of most towns have expanded from the original. I thought it was a shame that across the BOFI-IV titles, the world actually regresses (less towns, less assets in towns, smaller worldmaps landmasses). BOFIV is pretty striking in this manner (have you ever wandered the streets of the *great* kingdom of Ludia in BOFIV?, or compared the port towns of BOFIII’s Rhapala to BOFIV’s Shikk?). Winlan vs. Windia, Gant vs Guntz are other jarring contrasts between the SNES titles. Naturally, limitations of SNES cartridge memory space, and probably the camera work and anime movie of BOFIV had impacts here. Thus any attempts you’ve made and may make with your mod to ensure the world a bit grander in breadth and depth is, in my view, a big win.

o   “Century of the Patriarch” – the OG Windia Zone theme would be lovely to hear again when you enter Windia. Perhaps once you get Highland up and running – they can take the current Windia ‘castle song’ as per the original?


Combat Balance 

o   Ryu’s Skill Tree

  • I thought about your reply re: the evolution of elemental Dragon tiers. As you said, Welp has Single Target Elemental Breath for [Attack], Elemental Claw for [CP]. Perhpas Dragon (Tier Two), has Elemental Claw for [Attack]. Multitarget Elemental Breath for [CP] ß basically Welp CP ability becomes the free standard attack option, and the Tier 2 continues to be the first opportunity for multi-target breaths, but has a CP cost.



    • As an aside, for my current playgthrough of 3.2 (only up to HR battle at Coursair), the progression continues to be challenging, but rewarding. Oils have been applied to each boss battle thus far, with dragon transformation occuring on an emergency basis. That offers a nice litmus test for difficulty, but I wonder whether (aside from a 1-turn transformation penalty) what cost/benefit trade off is there to transform in battle? For example, if Ryu cannot use ITEMS while transformed – that would be very tense and mean that there was a clear trade-off for power! It would keep party support relevant and present some options down the skill tree to offer regens/heals for Light/Dark Dragon abilities.
  • In 3.0/3.1 if I selected DualWield skill *under ranger*, I no longer got the option of equipping an off hand shield – it seems to be weapons only. In 3.2, I avoided this skill as the double-attack skill seems it might be the best of both worlds, as I think I need to play more defensively in 3.2. Any chance for flexibility in equipment choice here? Easy respec between DPS Ryu vs Endurance Ryu?

o   Party Characters: Suggestion for more character class-based abilities, and stat progression? Perhaps that’s already happened, but I remember someone making a comment asking why Jean and Mixie had the same stats at recruitment. With increased difficulty, perhaps recruited characters are no longer adjusted to current party level, or provided with shared battle experience if not an active party member? Quest XP still provides cross-party experience, perhaps avoiding too wide a gap between active/resting part rooster? Basically, any means to promote using different types of characters and party compositions by characters have increased specialities/niches.  

  • Mixie (yes, her again!): Whether she stays as Mixie, or shuffles over to Nimfu, I keep thinking about what each character brings to the table, and I like that you’ve added some changes to her HEX (adding elemental resistance debuffing). It goes without saying that debuffs were kind of a disappointment in BOFII (due to bugs and encounters that generally prioritised DPS). With your mobs offering the potential for slower, more stategic encounters, status-debuffs and disruptive character builds become a lot more viable.
    • What if her ability pool adopted versions of the shaman transformation abilities? She would be a great candidate for ‘Banish’ (non-consumable Smokebomb), and Sten’s Swch (swapping or ‘morphing’) one enemy group to another.
    •  Better still, what if she had a single target monster ‘transform’ ability? Fitting around her story/class theme – she has an ability with a %change to turn an enemy into a Frog (A Goblin or Eye Goo?). This could be very effective against large heavy-hitter enemy targets like Mammoths. Maybe she CAPTURES/ensnares a weakened mob to be unleased in a future encounter (released attacks might be a stronger version of that Mob’s attack or LORE ability). That’s essentially what she was doing with her boy-toy statue collection. Or she has the option to ensare a number of mobs to fill up a charged talisman to release for one-time big damage. Basically, she makes a great debuffer/disruptor mage, with situational damage, compared to Nina’s DPS Elemental and BUFF.
    • Mixie Multi-target status debuff: Poison Plume, StunWave, Confusion, Siren’s Song, MP/HP drain. Charm.
    • Other spells: Perhaps Gravity attack based on users current vs. max HP.
  • Deis: Non-elemental attack Mage, single target party support buff. Deis is meant to be endless, and thus, be somewhat ‘above’ the rules. Unlike Nina, Deis offers reliable non-elemental attack (Bomb, Missile, Death) and party stat buffs (Might, Shield, Fort). She won’t hit as hard as Nina when elemental weaknesses are applied, but she can punch through MAGDEF and act as single target party support for the Physical fighters. Highest DEF among mages – tough to kill (via SHED). This means she can survive well with a siphon, or beserk themed Dark Dragon Ryu. Perhaps she still gains access to final tier elmental spell by end game (thematically consistent with Ershin and Dies’ propensity to have ‘forgotten’ alot of her spells at each recruitment).

  • Nina: DPS Elemental Mage, with Elemental party MAGdefense support. She’s great at cleaning house when there’s large encounter groups. Also effective against boss elemental weaknesses, but needs to guard/use Crescant Pheonix to support MP recovery in longer boss battles. As offense, pairs well with Mina, as defense, pairs well as party support MAG-DEF buff against enemy mage groups and Dark Dragon Ryu.


  • Bow: Ranger - Single Target debuff (status), Single target minor heal/regenerative heal and status cleanse.  Basically double-downs on Ranger theme – using oils/poisons, natural remedies to disrupt/heal single targets. He could be another contender for capture/monster pet attacks (instead of Mixie) ß maybe themed around animal hunts (Gonghead, Bugbear). Strategies around Hunter’s Mark could be quite viable as part of crowd controlling (mobs attack mobs, Beserked Ryu can be ‘Influenced’). Autocross Bow could pair with applied Oils to offer random barrage attacks with elemental/status debuff.


  • Jean: Spellsword - Physical attack version of Nina (focus on elementals). High Defense, can use low level magic, great for long boss battles and single target damage. Compared to Rand, Jean sacrifices a bit of HP/DEF for ATK/SPD, can be hardest single target hitter when elemental weakness is applied. He could easily function like a sort of Steiner from FFIX and have the odd Min/Max HP single target attacks to complement his spellsword and relationship with Mixie/Nimfu. Whereas Rand can scan all weaknesses (via SACREDHEART), perhaps Jean (who has all the elemental attack options) can ‘COURT’ his enemies to reveal or apply just a single elemental weakness.
  • Mina: WhiteMage support, party heals/revives, some Radiant MAG attack and anti-undead. Great again for long dungeons and boss battles, akin to cross WhiteMage and Bard. Perhaps she can be a support MP battery for Nina?. Maybe Nina (instead of Deis) gets double cast later on, increasing the need for MP support?
  • Sten: Rogue/Engineer with traps. High SPD/EVA/ATK, middling HP/DEF. Can use special consumables (oils, gems) to create single/all target elemental attacks and stat debuff traps. I.e, Smoke-trap does minor fire damage, lowers physical %hit. Punji stick does bleed damage and lowers speed. Bear trap %cancel 1 enemy turn. Mustard Gas – burn damage %cancel next enemy spell (silence). Perhaps to lean into the Engineer aspect, he consumables and CP instead of MP?  


  • Rand: Monk with Earth Elemental, secondary healer - perhaps a bit of Radiant/Holy? (why fix what ain’t broken!). Slow, hard hitter. Tank and heavy single target healing/middling whole party healing/DEF/RESISTANCE buffing.

  • Lin Fighter DPS - High ATK, EVA, Counter Attack/CRIT, with a bit of single target stun/confusion/bleed. Limited elemental damage (Fire, Nature, Wind). Again, I think you’ve got this one covered.


  • Aspara: Love your Lore/Blue Mage focus. Any chance of “calling out to nature” for Geomancy? That would help give Aspara some ‘hit the ground running’ utility, and its already in the original game mechanics. Maybe the odd party buff through elemental/status resistance?
  • Yua – Thief/Dancer If she was joining the party, she could do a variant of what I suggested above for Sten/Mixie, with greater emphasis on thief skills. Perhaps she is ‘MUG’, rather than STEAL, as that fits our interactions with her in-game. She could also serve as a perfect secondary candidate to Bow to offer crowd control skills (Steal Heart/Charm vs. Hunter’s Mark) and be able to influence a berserk-ed Ryu. Perhaps she also has some single target Elemental defense bubbles (like Nina). Basically, emphasize that she is a survivor (maybe a bit frail but high survivability/luck/evasion), a bit of a lone cat-burglar (solo rather than team player). Her and Ryu should have some really good synergy across his skill tree: LightDragon paladin protects her, and her self-defence abilities and crowd control means that she can survive and influence the DarkDragon skills set (Siphon/Berserker).

(Part II in next post)

Reply
digbigson1 year ago (3 edits)

(Part II)

Story narrative and mechanics: Dragon Tear

  • Building on prior suggestion of dark/light morality points expressed as Radiant/Poison Hearts – BOFII already have a beautiful story/gameplay mechanic through the Dragon Tear. Could the Dragon Tear be a selectable key time, or even an added submenu page? – it could provide viewing access to Ryu’s skill tree, party character and zone-based morality/reputation checks. Perhaps it provides a character alignment progress check as it lightens/darken over time.
  • In the original, the Dragon Tear is an inherited gift from Valerie, what if it had a certain sentience to it? Or added as a conduit between Valerie (Light Side) and Barubary (Dark Side). This exact relationship would not be disclosed to the player character until later in the game, but sort of acts as a voice of morality (Valerie = Angel, Barubary = Devil on Ryu’s shoulder). While Ryu is a silent protagonist, the Dragon Tear might whisper advice or affirm/concerning feedback at story intervals (in the same manner as the cross-party dialogue). These would allow you to feel the impact of light/dark side progression and when the player commits fully to one side, the opposing voice becomes silent. It would also make any face-to-face late game encounters with either Valerie or Barubary have a bit more weight as they would know everything about your journey up to that point.
  • Rather than gaining skill points via discovered Dragon shrines (they are a bit oversaturated in some zones), you gain ‘tears’: Mortal, Radiant, and Dark through quests and dialogue decisions. You spend these at the Dragon Shrine via the option to: select your Dragon Tear to convene with Ladon and upgrade skills.  
  • For example, say I beat Lin at the Colliseum. Defeating her results in 1 Mortal Tear, Choosing to save her results in 1 Radiant Tear. If I let her get poisoned/die – I end up with 1 Mortal Tear and 1 Dark Tear, instead. So in all play throughs, you generally end up with enough Mortal tears to unlock the Ranger Skill Tree, but culminative choices of Light/Dark result in varying outcomes across the Light/Dark Trees.

Story narrative and mechanics: What is a Dark Dragon? And the manifestation of corrupted power. Ideas for Both BOFII and BOFI

o   Very excited that you are thinking about playing around with the Light/Dark Brood paradigm, and considering the relevance, timing, and progressions of skill design! Implementing a Dark Dragon skill tree would be quite unique and fresh to the BOF experience. I am going to attempt to offer a head-cannon attempt at justifying my prior suggestions on Ryu’s Dark Dragon skill tree below. It does begin with the suggestion of BOFIV as a prequel, but mainly as it relates to my suggestion of Ryu’s Dark Dragon skill tree being a siphon-based, big nuke damage skill set.

BOFIV: To begin, I am going to assert that Fou Lou was (despite serving as narrative foil to Ryu) not a dark dragon - simply one half of the Yorae dragon. Together they united and ‘maybe’ became Ladon and a pure expression of the pinnacle of Dragon Brood power in the games’ universe. They are a summoned Endless, like Deis. Both summoned incorrectly, imperfect, and remained imperfect after reunification. That may because they were once split, and perhaps in part of the rage experienced by Fou Lou, the united Yorae was flawed, or at least was just as ‘human’ as Deis. Perhaps over the centuries they lived in the world of BOF, later emerging as a clan, augmenting the potentials of other clans, and under Ladon’s guidance, were charged as sort of pacifist stewarts of the world (which appears to have already been the defunct role of the pre-existing BOFIV dragons).

  • Interestingly, when Fou Lou was injured by the Carronade, it was sort of a necro anti-matter anti-God weapon created by the same Fou Lou empire. This same empire abducted and mutated Elena into a sort of Lovecraftian horror. Rather than summon, through Elena and the magictek that also produced the Carronade, Yuna created an Endless. Its power was on-par to summoned endless in that Cray was required to use the Dragon Blade to kill Elena. The extent that this was successful and final is inconclusive: Yuna and later bragged about creating future endless. “If” Yuna created (re-created Elena) into what would later be known as Tyr/Myria (thus positioning BOFIV as a prequel), he would have done so with that same magical technology. This power corrupts people, siphons life energy, is otherworldly powerful. If Tyr/Myria was born of this, it explains her influence over the monstruous Dark Dragons of BOFI, and her final Lovecraftian form.  Since  Fou Lou was hit by the Carronade prior to becoming the merge Yorae dragon, a short of vulnerability/corruption was established. Once that might attract future entities that are also derived from that power. At some point, a sort of derived Carronadeentity known as Tyr/Myria rose up and, did some significant damage (creating Light/Dark clan schism?).  With the support of heroes led by Deis and the Dragon Brood, it was put down and sealed.
  • BOFI: Not sure if there were ‘dark’ Dragons at the time of the Goddess War, but at least one key appeared to be in possession of Scande, sitting uptop the Obeslik. Perhaps Tyr/Myria used the key to speak to Zog and with that Carronade link corrupt him and the land surrounding (red rivers of poison).
  • Perhaps Emperor Zog (BOFI) was the only ‘realised’ Dark Dragon encountered in BOFI because his power source relies on siphoning the power of others, via the corruption inherited by the Carronade essence. That is what makes him a Dark Dragon, as opposed to the Light Dragon, those imperfect Dragons who are happy to subdue and seal their powers (made available to only the worthy of spirit).
  • Perhaps the BOFI generals below ZOG became ‘less-dragon like’ because ZOG was drawing that power to himself. They became corrupted monstrosities (Gremlins, Squids) because of their winner take-all totalitarian culture wouldn’t allow them to become weak, and that was all that was left? Basically an incomplete transformation. Makes sense, given Zog was completely out of scale with any other sort of encounter (Dragon or otherwise) in that game. Comparatively, Sara’s Light Dragon boss sprite, wasn’t exactly ‘majestic’ looking (wings seemed proportionally too small, her gut too big), she could have been partly-siphoned while imprisoned - and it partly explains the Light Dragon's interest towards 'sealing their powers'. They had to 1 - Seal Tyr/Myria, 2 - Seal their powers from their own corruption. They have to embrace mortality, to avoid their God power empowering Tyr/Myria.
  • Maybe BOFI Jade, Generals, and foot soldiers accepted/endured this Faustian bargain with Zog because they were going to free Myria and she would reserve this and make them all powerful (the big lie). Perhaps Jade just had the means and ambition to undercut Zog and try and claim it all for himself? Maybe Tyr spoke to Jade, convinced him to betray Zog because she was worried that Zog's growing strength was ultimately a risk of rivalry. Zog seemed to think it was the Dragon's destiny to rule the world, not Tyr - since I'm pretty sure he tells BOFI Ryu to conquer in his stead. In a Lovecraftian turn of events, upon meeting Tyr, Jade became akin to her thrall, tries to play the player party like court puppets, while nothing more than a puppet king himself. Unlike the towering 'Dark Dragon Zog,' Jade's final form is some non-descript demon, rather than a Kingly Dragon.

BOFII: The Carronade also fits Deathevan’s nihilistic morality and presentation via St Eva and Barubary – siphoning life, leaving a void behind. Perhaps the use of Agni by BOFI Ryu - stripped Tyr's aspect of Elena, allowing the Carronade core to materialise for the first time, via the 'scar' left behind.  I suggest, in Deathevan’s case, given the importance of St Eva and organised religion as part of his path to power - he looks a little less Lovecraftian, adopting more a Judeo-Christian presentation (Dante’s Inferno). Dragnier township and Yua grew unusual wings by being close to DeathEvan -  reinforcing the ongoing threat of the corrupting power of Carronade’s influence.

 

o   BOFII: If Ryu chooses the Dark Dragon skill tree, is he unwittingly choosing to augment his Brood powers with those of DeathEvan/Myria - Carronade? That would be the same thing that Argus and Jean2.0 are choosing, only Ryu is stronger and thus more worthy: more Zog's might make right.

BOFIII: Who knows, maybe Myria’s presentation in BOFIII is one that is purged of DeathEvan (Carronade anti-matter energy manifest), with a sort of Elena personality template reset emerging from reincarnation. Again, maybe the use of Agni by the BOFI team prompted a split of aspects, and the mural in Dragonier kind of treats Myria as a sort of external Lovecraftian demon, with the innocent child at the centre. Her conflict in BOFIII is trying to ‘right’ a world that was nearly destroyed by the ‘old her’ (of which she feels completely dissociated and absolved from) and the ‘Dark’ Dragons (which are simply just Dragons) are instead the dangerous threat because they succumbed to the ‘old me that is no longer me’ corrupting influence.  

BOFIII Myria wants to see herself as Elena: humanitarian royalty caring to the orphans of Synesta (scaled to the 'children' of BOFIII),  DeathEvan is purged. But – you know, God complex and Myria is forever a corrupt creation... so it robs unique people of purpose (Rei) and free-agency (Garr). Basically, same end-stasis/nihilism as DeathEvan with the desert of Death and life-less citizens of Kombinat, but different methods and morality. Perhaps thats why her boss form in BOFIII is much more animalistic, rather than Lovecraftian/Demonic. Its both a representation of that attempted purge/rebirth, but is only a self-delusion because she is still... a monster. 

Also, Elena only met the Yorae dragon briefly at the time of her death - and who knows what was told to her by Yuna about her purpose while she was being transformed. Yuna was a monster, created her in monstrous form, and without clear purpose. If Elena was told she was Endless in this new  form, that's her frame of reference: Endless = Monster. In drawing the personal conclusion that she needed to be killed, whatever reincarnated aspect of her that followed, while seemingly having a greater desire for self-preservation (Myria), she's still living a life removed from others, and is probably is largely biased against all things Endless (Yggdrasil, Brood... Deis as well). 

Maybe Deis was specifically imprisoned in naked human form by the Guardians because it was Myria’s imposition of that attempt at ‘purging/purifying’ the demonic side to them both.  Curious that in BOFIII, Myria adopts the angelic Windian form – a call back her own connection to something pure: Elena?). Across the BOF series, Ryu and Nina keep sort of 'coming back' as the same, but not the same character - I think the re-creation of undying Elena as a corrupted Endless Myria/DeathEvan, and an indirect link established between 'it' and Fou Lou via the Carronade attack could offer the series a grounding to its recurring conflict and notion of Light/Dark Clans.

Phew - it would seem I am just adding too much onto the pile! Looking forward to your next update, because whether or not you take on some of the above suggestions I'm sure it'll be solid and people will continue to enjoy your vision. 

Reply
digbigson1 year ago (3 edits)

(Part III)

Bugs 

-       (3.1, not tested at 3.2) You can double activate the Rand selling antidote event if you return to the change-room with Ryu/Katt prior to confronting Argus.

-       (3.2) Eye Goos still locking Ryu into sleep (SOLO). Went hunting here SOLO, a group of 4 Goos (plus reinforcements) will easily create a soft-lock situation.

-       If Ryu has Guts activated, reaches 0 HP and defeats enemy, a game over is triggered. This happened against R-66Y.

o   Perhaps Guts holds HP at 1, or functions as a straight heal (preferred, like original).

-       In Thieves Den, only one enemy sprite can be targeted, though all enemies are active and targeting my whole party.

QOL/Economic Suggestions

-       Hunting for ingredients. When cooking weapon oils and chicken-drumsticks, you require salt, these are only available from the township house and eye goos. Quite a bit of backtracking between Coursair and these spots in order to restock options. Camping and mob spoil tweaking are easy solutions.

-       Is there a difference between hunting for birds vs. Hunting for pigs in terms of spoils and cooking recipes? Other than backtracking, one is significantly easier than the other – and lots of invisible walls in the Pig/GongHead hunting sequence.

-       With slower level progression, it would be great to see the level-up stat increases that were visible on the game-trailer. Would also help players to engage a bit with the characters’ stat growth and distribution for future planning.

-       Money is tight now (3.2). Trying to cook, and equip three new characters (Rand/Lin/Nina) left me rather low on funds. Does cooking need to have a Zenny$ cost? Cooking could be a nice way to supplement income. Sell dried fish/fish oil? Make/sell perfume? Nothing radical, but as cooking recipes get more complex, maybe they offer a nice viable way of feeding into to the whole game economic progression.

-       I like that healing items are %based. What if, to keep cooking viable, these are %based, and item consumables are set number based? At least one way to differentiate the two types of consumables (cost: Zenny vs. Spoils, effect: static vs. %).

 

Combat Balance

-       Argus battle was alot of fun – but success was pinned on Argus’ AI targeting and luck. Because I don’t yet have a means of revive, if Argus focuses too much on Lin or Rand early, the battle can be a bit deterministic and Ryu is soon overwhelmed. Maybe Rand gets a spell akin to ‘WAKE’? Or better yet, you can cook ‘smelling salts’ for a 1HP revive. 

-       In Thieves Den, my party roster is at Level 11 – and I think the enemies are designed for the 3.1 level progression? At least they are a bit too tough for my party and struggle to make a dent. Given that the mobs spoils for XP/Zenny are reduced, I can see progress grinding down.

-       Was Crescent Pheonix supposed to regen some MP? I feel like it might increase potency of MP regen, IF you have equipment that enables it. Guard now already functions to support CP regen. Nina with a small MP regen ability (WILL) would be appropriate for her, and is much needed in the Theives Den.

-       There’s a number of RUNES that offer +100% to X stat. Ability/Defence, for example... What if this was limited to something more modest, like +15%? They should be able to provide an ‘edge’ to character abilities/weaknesses, rather than be a requirement for progression (perhaps that progresses higher by the pre-final dungeon when your party composition might be more definitive).

o   Maybe there is a tenant, or party character later on (Deis) who can join multiple runes to increase potency/effects?

o   Perhaps another NPC or party character who can increase GEM/RUNE/CREST customisation by adding sockets to weapons (Jean) and armor (Rand), and accessories (Sten/Mixie). Could be the other way around – Sten sockets GEMS, Rand sockets RUNES, Jean sockets CRESTS. Deis, Mixie, and Nina increase potentcy of RUNES, GEMS, and CRESTS, respectively.

-       Speaking about Deis, could she be available a bit later (Trout sequence?). I love the open-world, open-choice, but perhaps the quick accumulation of possible characters after Argus (Lin, Rand, Aspara, Deis, Sten, ...briefly Mina) is a bit too sudden to get a proper feel for the team? This time (3.2), I did not try to recruit either Dies or Aspara for the Thieves Den – and if the game is meant to be played either SOLO or full party, it shouldn’t be required in terms of progression. 

-       What if I could choose bring either Rand or Lin to the Thieves Den, and enemy mob balanced for that? The original game had: Lin for Thieves, then +Nina for Windia hike, then +Sten for Capitan, then +Rand for Nimfu. Could a post Argus event lead to regroup at Township and have Rand 'OR' Katt help Nero? Maybe, if you have a 'full party' at the Magic School, Rand/Lin compels Nina to wait behind while we take care of business, but Nina being proud, she meets you at the Den, rather than joining outright at the school?

Character Role:

Yua: Weapon class = Boomerangs akin to BOFI Ryu, functions like Ursula in BOFIV where there are hit-all, and hit+ variants. As a thief, it could enable a 'steal from all targets' variant. Otherwise a Lance and the odd Dragoon themed abilities might differentiate her from the wider part roster and show her wings mean business. (SOAR = HIDE 1 turn, reappear for big damage; LANCE ability which absorbs HP/MP).  Maybe her time with Barubary and SOLO journey has given her some Dark Dragon themed abilities that siphon from enemies and employ barrage/berserk style bursts. Maybe she steals strength from enemies and uses it back at them. Certain Dragon-type abilities might put her in critical condition (showing her inferiority to her big brother). 

Reply
knightmarish_Games1 year ago

I greatly appreciate all the theorycrafting and lore. As I'm adding content and reworking the trees and character kits it will be a great help! I am definitely wanting to give each character their niche in the group and allow a greater customization for different playstyles and character preferences. 

Added Following Fixes for patch 4.0:

- Fixed the triggering bug for Rand.

- Rebalanced Goo A.I.

- Party now heals after battle. I've been debating on this addition for a while, and think it would be modern to add it in.

- Can you elaborate on the Thieves Den?

- Working on Camp system where party collects items for you as well to help with low quantity and backtracking. Also each character will have an ability that grants access to special items or abilities.

- Each hunting area gives you different meats which allows you to craft different potions. I'll get invisible walls fixed.

- I switched up plugins for the victory ending why it is different than the original trailer. 

- Monsters now drop "Treasure/Junk" that can be sold to merchants for additional money. Zenny cost on cooking removed.

- Cooked meals now heal a % instead of flat amount. Added a cooked meal that will revive a fallen comrade.

- Joker's Hideout rebalanced.

- Crescent Phoenix is supposed to cancel and absorb the next enemy spell cast.

- Runes and Crests were retweaked due to a % bug that gave infinite Attributes.

- Aspara's boss actually levels with you.Deis will now have a level check before she joins.

- I love the ideas with Yua, and I'm thinking the boomerang would be a great throw back to BOF 1 and would fit her personality/style. I'm going to tweak and play around with a few things for her kit. Really good ideas.

- I am currently working on the Dark and Light tree. I'm adding the morality points in that give you skills for those two trees, in addition to the normal Dragon Shards you earn.

- Fixed bookshelf in Ryu room and double checked all the shops as some had a bad condition check.

- The HR fight is not a game over fight. It is set as a level and equipment check  before you do the arena.

- Rural Cabins now are linked correctly.

- Will look at Deis sprite.

- The Highland area is going to be a full content dungeon patch in later version. I'm really wanting to give it the scale that it deserve. I am still debating on what to add, but most likely will do some more areas especially as I start making the BOF I sprites.

Reply
digbigson1 year ago (5 edits)

Hey great, thanks! I suppose I'm a bit over invested in terms of what this series can yet be, and you've provided the perfect opportunity to tease some theories and see if they could help improve your game. You mentioned HighFort - and so I can't resist. There's a perfect setting here that can tie the series together and so I'll take that challenge below and offer some final Bugs/Feedback on our ongoing conversation and your plans for 4.0 and beyond.

All your planned updates sound great and work to both let your existing systems shine, and add additional depth. Something akin to smelling salts/revive would do alot to avoid battle resets.

Clarification:

When I’ve previously referred to ‘Theives Den’, I meant Joker’s Lair exclusively. Forgot about Karn’s/Sten’s area (which I haven’t explored in your mod).

Bugs

-       I had a targeting bug arise in a few fights within the Joker’s Lair. Mainly, I had a number of instances where I couldn’t select different targets. Maybe its a gamepad issue (my fault), but it was inconsistent so I’m not sure. I’ll confirm if it happens again when trying both gamepad and keyboard.  

-       Aspara recruitment boss fight no longer triggers. Event flag skips immediately from ‘Fight’ to post-fight defeat. Aspara is currently a freebie.

Suggestions on Balance/ Progression:

-       Initial progress through Joker’s Lair was slow (fight-by-fight). I’m aware I could jump ahead, grab the fire shaman, and make mustard – but I'm still of the view that such boosts  should be an ‘edge’ rather than a condition for progress. I think Sana/Fire Shaman currently add (+150% ATK + Fire elemental). 

o   What if shamans were locked behind its own little quest? Something that prompts a SOLO Ryu fight with his Dragons (must do elemental/magic damage to defeat boss). Just a cool event to match the gravity of the original game encounter. I’m partial to the original idea of his Dragon abilities being ‘unlocked’ by an appropriate counter-force and wouldn’t mind having to navigate the first few quests without a dragon skill tree. 

-       I finished Joker’s Lair at Level 15 (avg.) and the key turn around was towards the end of the dungeon where I got a rune that increased Katt’s HP100%, and Nina’s MP by 100%. Joker himself started threatening, until two things happened:

o   Katt used Aerial strike end of turn 1 (inflicting silence)

o   Nina used Lightning on turn 4 (landed 6500+ damage). Joker was absolutely toast on that. Otherwise, he had some good things going for him (but much easier than preceding Bandit Gang fight). 

o   Mina joined at Level 40 with middling stats, but an extensive spell roster and I decided to bench her for that boss fight.

-     I would suggest that you  add a couple more monster lairs (a field zone on the road to Windia/Joker’s Lair, and somewhere before Capitan. These help to test out new party roles/compositions and bridge level gaps prior to heading into dungeon. Also offers additional opportunity to collect cooking ingredients (salt, for one) I know there are a number of overworld monster encounters that have yet to feature (Goblins, Lizards, DeathCentipede, Bullas, DevilSpears, SnapDragon, Flies). A lot of monster zones has the menu Goblin on entry, I think these would look appropriate as the overworld monster den sprite (instead of, or as a contrast to, the Highfort Door Seal). Different monster speeds and colour palate could signal relative strength of mobs, and frees you up to use the Door Seal as a later boss fight.

-       Aspara and learning Lores

o   Just picked her up following Sten. Went back to Tag woods, hoping to learn some missed Lores. Guard feature help to prolong battles and I eventually learned Faerie Fire (great). Wanted to learn Bug Bear’s ability, but even with high-AGRO (Ryu), and high SPD (Lin) characters swap out for Nina and Sten, the chance of monster using sought ability AND targeting Aspara is quite low. Could Aspara have an ‘OBSERVE’ ability that allows her to learn any LORES used by the enemy (could be attacks targeting allies, or even LORES that the monster uses to self-buff). An OBSERVE command would certainly fit Aspara’s more introverted and pensive character.  In addition to a loss of turn (by virtue of selecting this, instead of attack), unlike GUARD, perhaps there’s a debuff to the move that shows Aspara is effectively letting her guard down (Defence down, speed down/ or cannot act until targetted in battle). ß kind of like the sleep condition.

- Character roster:

Thinking about what different titles in the series do well, I liked that BOFI and BOFIV allowed for character swapping in battle. Since you endeavour to expand the party roster, why not reintroduce the swap feature from BOFI? This could allow for some interesting strategies around (stealing, Lore learning, debuffing, exposing enemy weakness, applying resistance/buff support, reviving). 

Comment on your update:

 QOL:

Having character heal at the end of battle sounds like of QOL improvement, though may not be necessary. In most battles, I tend to avoid alot of inflicted character defuffs (poison/bleed/death) – addressing them after the action. Having these linger post-battle will ensure I am using those consummables/support characters and putting a bit more consideration to pre-dungeon planning/cooking. With the modern encounters, I like that I have to consider the ‘gauntlet’ of encounters that are ahead of me, and how much I can endure as I progress to loot/boss. If the only opportunity cost is ‘time in battle’, I’d probably focus more on DPS characters like Nina, or spam potential future Dark Dragon nuke abilities, rather than consider resource management and buffing/debuffing/enemy weakness targetting strategies (Jean and Mixie).

 

Character: Deis

-       Good idea about having a level check for Deis to join. Currently, if she joins at Lvl 10, she only has revive, so a rebalance of skill progression would be needed regardless. 


Deis: WORLBUILDING/ Future Patch Suggestion (BOFIV-I-II)

o   I mentioned Wisdon before, what if (perhaps a patch down the road), the secret library is in a desert? An archeological dig of the defunct remains of Wisdon? Maybe Arad (with support of the Digger clan: descendants of Mogu) leads the dig? In terms of Lore/Worldbuilding, that would be amazing. It also aligns with your proposed level check (since it would require Jean’s swimming ability to reach that zone). Maybe Deis didn’t want to get her ‘hands dirty’ by going down herself, and you’ve proved the capable hero when confronted by a Wisp in the lower reaches.

§  Perhaps Deis is only at the Magic School so she can access hidden books or an archeological dig team concerning Wisdon, and goes on to lead the expedition (joining you for that dungeon)? She also doesn't want to gather too much attention,  due to the ideas of a recent history that follows. 

§  If BOFIV is a prequel, I think there’s potential for Wisp to be an enduring aspect of Ershin, and would explain the enduring devotion and subservience Wisp(s) have towards Deis throughout the centuries. Whether Ershin remains as a single consciousness, or is split across various Wisps - I'd say that a matter concerning the Gods, not for lowly mortal understanding.  Ershin/Wisp could act as a zone boss, and link back to the feel of BOFI or BOFIV with encounter music. 

 

HighFort and LORE (across BOF Series):

-       So, its natural to make the connection between the technology employed by HighFort and Township with Obelisk in BOFI. In BOFII, we learn that this technology is fuelled by some form of human energy/sacrifice. It is the same technology that Ganer is hooked up to beneath Evrai and acts as a conduit to DeathEvan. Going back to BOFIV, this functions very similar again to the Carronade, with Mami being used explicitly to hurt Fou Lu due to the intensity of emotional energy that connects them.

o   As I suggested, it is the Carronade that marks Fou Lu and creates the conditions by which future BOF Dark Dragons might be drawn to, or corrupted by, that same power (Myria/DeathEvan). Across the series (BOFI-V), the elemental/visual expression of this energy (void/necro) seems consistent.

I believe that the ‘good’ ending of BOFII is actually a bad ending for the series. 

-       I never experienced the ‘good ending of Ganer saving the day’ until I replayed the game a number of years after release with the benefit of GAMEFAQS forum guides. For me, Ryu sacrificing himself for the greater good, felt bitter sweet yet thematically cohesive. The loose ends are better tied up (extreme God power has been removed from the world “Dragon & Demon”). With the exception of Yua, all other Dragons are accounted for. The story is overall tragic, but sacrifices won’t be forgotten and the Light/Dark Dragon Clan is now fully redeemed following the events of BOFI.

-       In BOFII, I think Ganer represents the folly of man to trust false gods and technological progress without moderation. He brought St Eva into Gate’s community, afterall. How did he become a member of the cloth? Once freed by Ryu following years of captivity in Evrai, full of regret, the guy immediately seeks to use the same technology (tech employed by demons) to do good and help his son (saving him at the end, somehow at the perfect time). Personally, I’d expect severe trauma and a large degree of cognitive decline/mental illness. Now, at the ending - Valerie was gone, so who communed with him to rally his spirit to descent on Gate with Township at the most opportune/dramatic moment?)

o   I know this has the potential to ‘twist’ the prevailing view and presentation of Ganor, but maybe this guy is tainted, and was compelled by the Carronade ‘essence’ (Myria/DeathEvan or a sort of void energy-magnestism) to bring Township to Gate – linking void-hunger to a readypowersource? Something that perhaps Shupkay would have been drawn to do, if the machine didn't destroy her. Ganer could still have done so for the virtuous reason he claims, but aside from the perfect JRPG anime timing tropes, he’s a bizzare breath of fresh air, in a story that is otherwise centred around tragedy (Daisy, Tiga, Yua*, Mina, etc.).

§  Ganer being enthralled wouldn’t be the first time it has happened – consider the anti-climatic end of Jade in BOFI? Successful in his mission, yet robbed of the agency,  serving as no more than a fall-guy to Myria (like Goma before him). We also know that all endings of BOFI simply ‘kick-the-can down the road’ to the next generation(s).

What does it mean to be the destined child?  

Ganer being enthralled from the beginning would explain why he was so quick to 'fall in love with Valerie' - it was by design. The 'destined child' or Nikanoru - is a story about Ryu being created from the union of a pure entity (Valerie) and a corrupted one (Ganer). Its not quite black and white - Ganer might be relatively good, but his magical power and life choices were given/made for him and perhaps the 'essence' of Ganer's power (Carronade) and Valerie's (Endless) are instinctively drawn towards one another. In the context of a quaint life in Gate, Valerie has her guard down, and maybe Ganer is partly oblivious to being a pawn in something else's (destiny) game. He believes in St Eva, but maybe he doesn't know why, and somehow the scandalous notion that he marries a 'Dragon Maiden' who worships Ladon is totally lost on him. Valerie has literally lived under a rock her whole life, so you can forgive her for being a little bit naive to the laws of attraction, societal norms/etiquette and deception of the surface world. They form a relatively wholesome union and they work together to reseal Gate. 

Later, Barubary/Aruhmel and Habaruku are released or at least strike from the shadows now that Valerie is otherwise occupied as a sleeping Dragon. Note that they strike when Ryu is asleep? They needed him to grow alone, in suffering, as a means to strengthen his connection to the void (giving God his strength). Yua managed to get away, and Ganer has served his purpose and is now hooked up to the siphon machine in Evrai.

But Ryu is confronted by Barubary.... and left to live. Ryu is the destined child. He is destined to open the gate (due to his ability to commune with both the Dragon and the Void). Yua/Valerie seemingly have this potential to let the gate open via their blood, but only Ryu would present the proposition that would compel Valeria to willingly open the Gate to confront/end the void. Maybe the seal could only be removed with that willing intent, and Valerie did so because she believed the destined child of legend would be enough to defeat DeathEvan. From DeathEvan's perspective, maybe that aspect of the destined child is a ruse - a legend that he supplanted in the minds of Dologany citizens. When Barubary looked into Ryu during the Cave sequence - he saw that Ryu could become more than DeathEven foresaw, and that there was truth to the lie of the 'Destined Child'. That's why he shows a degree of respect/deference to him during their confrontation at Infinity, and seeminly congratulates/rewards him upon defeat.

Concerning Ray: Perhaps Ray was a useful, but limited vessel for reasons that are not disclosed. Maybe simply as a foil to draw out Ryu's power - that was part of conditions through which to force Ryu to kill his own, become powerful: but filled with a remorse/emptiness that would bring him closer to the void and resolve to open the gate. As Ray is identified as likely to hold Dark Dragon Clan lineage when talking to citizens of Dologany, perhaps that 'perceived' or historical corruption meant that he would never be accepted by both Dragon Clans to be the 'destined child' to confront the void (that willing blessing being required) - thus, Habaruku/Father Hulk could only use Ray as a tool to draw out Ryu's potential. 

Reply
digbigson1 year ago (4 edits)

(Part II)

Back to the Obselisk/HighFort -Township & Evrai

-       Perhaps Obelisk and Township can draw from more than just the tapped-user? When BOFI Obelisk rises, the landscape is more than just a little impacted. Not dissimilar to how Gate’s Forests begun to die off and maybe this is why Evrai sits up top an inaccessible landmass – the coastlines are eroding to support the ‘siphon machine’. I can’t imagine Evrai being build on its current geographical context, the changes could have been quite recent, and then the ‘Road to Evrai’ was constructed as the solution (more rediscovered BOFIV tech from Astana). In fact, there aren't a lot of beaches across those island landmasses - suggesting land rising up or more likely being swallowed (compared with BOFI's geography). 

-       Perhaps the war of HighFort was partly precipitated on HighFort kingdom’s rediscovery and use of this Obelisk-Carronade technology? Maybe it drove the Highlanders militaristic in the same way that Scande’s Dark Dragons had become so (in that case, I suggested that the seventh Goddess Key allowed some conduit between Myria's void power, and Zog/Dark Dragon faction). Maybe ignition of HighFort ‘awakened’ DeathEvan (the scar of Myria) and gave him the awareness of a means to draw energy from the outside world? Perhaps another site is found/captured at Evrai soon after?

o   I’m not sure how the ‘timeline’ of events all line up, but what if a line made between DeathEvan and this Carronade tech  was part of the inciting incident that brought Valerie to the surface world? If you ignore any ‘stated’ player character ages in a game manual, I don’t see why this can’t fit. (Maybe Highlanders age differently to Humans? Like Dwarves/Elves? There, potential plot hole created by game manual solved!

-       Maybe Sten (as part of his defection/disappearance) stopped the machine and people snapped out long enough to regain their grips and halt military expansion. Shupkay was likely disappointed with this (and later targeted by DeathEvan's corruption), and Sten disappeared as the traitor/coward (with many only the Princess and Turbo having ‘some’ idea that the situation wasn’t as Shupkay or others might suggest). It is understood that he has been AWOL for some time.

-       Furthermore, maybe the activation of HighFort is what prompted Deis to awaken from her slumber? Perhaps she stooped in, instead of Sten, and Wisdon’s energy was used as part of an incantation and was thus buried? (I mean, Wisdon seems to be powered by Endless energy). Perhaps Wisdon was Goonheim? Goonheim really makes no sense the current narrative of BOFII? Was it a kingdom? A clan? Was it another floating fortress (powered by Deis and Wisps?). The Desert between BOFI and BOFII regresses considerably, as does the area around Gant/Guntz – one could see a conflict of “Obelisks”-type structures (HighFort/Evrai) (BOFI's Agua) and Deis' Wisdon being a terraforming Goonheim event.

Linking Township/Obelisk to BOFIII-IV-V: Caer Xhan and humanity's slow march towards a ruined world

-       BOFII-BOFIII: While Township initially feeds off Ganor – by BOFIII, at the far end of the desert of death (or perhaps the desert centre) is Caer Xhan. Maybe Myria comes back in BOFIII and recognises this (perhaps she stops it by acting as the powersource, perhaps she instead decides to fuel the desert's expansion to a specific end) – either way, she is an Endless with unlimited power (Elena’s created purpose).

o   You can see a logistical need for Myria in BOFIII to come back if – overtime, the technology and culture of Township continued to thrive and begin to produce a spiritual/natural drain (via Carronade siphoning) on the surrounding landscape. Or maybe it was coincidental - the proximity between Township and DeathEvan (and the ‘good’ energies that Ganer uses to fuel township), results in the Elena aspect of Tyr/Myria Endless emerge from the defeated DeathEvan scar, creating our 'adopted mother Myria').   

-       BOFIV's Yuna created Elena to be a battery for the Carronade, maybe that was Myria’s role in the centre of Caer Xhan and why she claims that, if she leaves, the desert would expand?

o   But yeah, she’s flawed, is jealous or fearful of the power of others (Deis, Dragon Clan, Yggdrasil), and covets her children (aspect of Elena). She is a re-created Endless that is corrupted as both a giver of gifts (Elena/Endless), and consumer of worlds (Carronade/Void siphon).

-       BOFIII: People discount BOFIV as a prequel in pointing to some of the cameos that appear (Momo, Teepo, Rei). My view:  Teepo/Rei, are just a straight developer cameo for like Karn and Bo in BOFII) Both are obscure/adjacent to main gameplay/narrative and require our suspension of dbelief.

o   But, in Momo’s case,  maybe Ganer and Momo have something thematically in common? Momo appears in the BOFIV story playthrough as a somewhat confused interloper, and perhaps got there as a result of ongoing experiments with Chrysm, which I'll suggest shares qualities with Carronade matter, and is some byproduct (maybe one that is purified of void?). Once BOFIII Myria is removed, and her grip on technological expansion, so is Momo’s ceiling of potential. Momo doesn’t appear to be corrupted (thanks to learning from Plant and Repsol experiments), but shows that perhaps even she got carried away with portal technology while trying to halt/remove the siphoning of Caer Xhan. Even with a disappeared Momo, others in the BOF world were not dissuaded, and the inherent naivity of humans (Momo/Ganer), the lingering mark of Carronade on the Dragon Clan (Fou Lu), coupled with the potential ambition and narcissism of people like Yuna (and I gesture to all the other demon people of BOFII), Carronade technology came back and went full-swing, consuming the world, corrupting the Dragons (a BIOTECH fused nuclear holocaust) providing the setting for BOFV.

-       BOFV (quick one!) 

(Disclaimer: I've only played this once (no resets, no subsequent revisits) 

o   So, Ryu and Nina have a way of ‘always coming back’ and the adventure coming full circle. What if Nina the experimental ‘filter’ of the underground, is not so much a retread of Nina, but a thematic retread of Elena/Myria? BOFIV Nina and Elena were sisters, so it's not like such a link is unprecedented. Maybe she's the answer to the void energy (a truly purified spirit of Elena), maybe she's the antagonist of the surface world? A DeathEvan released? Sort of like the Dologany colony forgetting that they weren't just hiding from the dangers of the surface world, but also protecting the surface world from the dangers below. 

Of Gods, Men and promises unfulfilled: 

I think the series order fits  BOFIV-I-II-III-V, and thus the BOFV setting is a natural cumulative consequence of recurring themes: some Gods exist to steward the world, but they are limited and tend to create new problems that need new answers/Gods to solve. As a consequence, humanity in each BOF entry seeks to create/choose their own Gods:

BOFIV - [Tense/Aimless world]  Fou Lu: half-complete, builds and then abandons his empire to return to slumber. In response, Elena is created to 'serve' the empire as mana battery to power and guide the Empires' future and replace the God that left. 

BOFI - [Ambitious/Expansionist world] Ladon: another somewhat failed God-stewart as he did not satisfy/contain the ambition of Dark Dragons. In response, Tyr/Myria is sought and released as wish granter to enable Dark Dragons to reach the potential that spirit Ladon denied?,

BOFII - [Fractured/Regressed world] GrandTree/Namanda: limited reach; Ladon's influence continues to wane (along with the Dragon Clan) - creating a bit of power vacuum. In response, St Eva (DeathEvan) emerges as a global uniter across fractured kingdoms (again, maybe Goonheim was a significant global/geopolitical calamity and St Eva was seen as a uniting pacifist solution - the Dragon Clan had suddenly vanished, anyways),

BOFIII - [Stasis/Contained world] Myria: is misguided, insecure, overbearing, and genocidal. The lived experiences of BOFIII citizens is controlled by corrupt forces (gangs, pre-selected technology, lack of purpose/agency, and exclusion of other deities). In response, Dragon Price Ryu emerges as liberator,  acting as a sort of Moses/messiah figure who reclaims birthright and frees the people to find their own destiny.  the ending draws some allusions to Israelites crossing the desert, in search of Jerusalem. 

*BOFV - [Ruined world] Dragon/machine Gods destroyed/poisoned the world. In response, experiments on a 'new God-Bioweapon' that can cleanse the world, and return to 'salvation' are created (Nina/Elena/Myria). <-- again this is where I'm most speculative. 

Altogether, this cycle appears to continue a pattern of destruction in/of the world. Each cycle rejects one god, becomes their own, and a failure to surrender godly ambitions ensures that the conflict eventually renews.  

What choice does Ryu BOFII have at the end of your game? Does Ganer rob Ryu of the ultimate choice, and inadvertently kick the can down the road? Or is there something else that Ryu does after Ganer's sacrifice that is not made explicit in the original? 

Sign-off: *I think I've exhausted my time for theory-crafting at least until your 4.0 update - but I'm heartened to read this back and see that, as far as I can tell,  there's a consistent internal and thematic coherence to this that allows for expansion of the series Lore, without straying too far from 'what we know' or taking too many creative liberties with the themes/story beats. Often fans can over-complicate and dig way deeper than creators intended but, as the series has left us, there are too many questions unanswered (so fair game!) and I've tried to fill in some of the cracks. Hopefully it is something you continue to find adaptable and suitable for your project, and I think it would hold up to most scrutiny. The above is now how I would reconcile the series and some of the prevailing gaps. 

Either way, I'm excited to see the end result (and am be happy to simply have a chance to play out the outcome you present in your project's vision). 

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digbigson1 year ago (1 edit)

(Part III)

Tying up loose ends: the decline of clans leading into BOFII, the rise of BOFIII’s pluralistic society under Windian Monarchy.


Goonheim... a world undone.

We know it was a ugly war that predates the events of Ryu’s adult journey. Was it a single battle or part of a much wider war? I previously suggested that HighFort and Evrai’s technology were harnessed at some point before the events of the game, and may have led to cataclymic events that involved Sten’s defection and the awakening/intervention of Deis.

Considering how dramatically different the landscapes of BOFI and BOFII are, and where these shifts take place, I would first suggest that the destruction of Tyr/Myria has lasting impacts on the land surrounding Scande. We can see that most of the continent there is reduced to a long, snaking mountain range. The shell (Rand’s clan) have since moved in and are perhaps restoring the land to life, I suspect the Grassmen and the sea of trees have a role towards this as well.

But what happened to the landmasses around Guntz/Gant and Arad? Were the Iron Ogres (Ox’s people) implicated in the conflicts around Goonheim? I suspect so. They were already known for their technological prowess in BOFI, conscripted to develop a torpedo to be used against Prima. What if the destruction of Zog’s empire, and the gradual retreat of the Dragon clan, created a power vacuum that led to an arms race between new clan players? Highlanders get ahold of Obelisk/Carronade tech, and maybe the Iron Ogres recreate it? Is it not suspicious that Eichichi is adapt at ancient tech?

As tensions and ambitions escalate, who’s bankrolling this an interclan conflict? Perhaps the Manillo’s pick a side and engage in a trade war with the other centre of wealth in BOFI – the port city of Auria?

 Whatever the exact outcome – we know that there isn’t a clear winner.

 

BOFII’s state of the World

 BOFII lacks a militaristic superpower, the world is quite fractured, compared to BOFI... 

-       Guntz is now an island, and the city zone is much smaller. This is where Eichichi is found, and she just so happens to have a curiosity and talent towards the ancient machine below Township. It is reasonable to assume that other Iron Ogres before her would have found interest in, and be able to eventually figure out, other such machines (Evrai).

-       Arad and Wisdon are also gone – with only Deis’ mountain cave filled with what looks like booze, suggesting she’s in a rough patch in her life and had to leave Wisdon.

-       Auria’s gold is no more. What’s in its stead, is Hometown, which has a sort of feuding minor aristocracy, and private guards, but has otherwise fallen quite far from its glory days as a wealthy port city. There appears to be no other major port cities to trade with in BOFII (Capitan appears more of a backwater).

-       With the wealth of Auria gone, Bleak looks inwards for fortune and becomes for games and gladiators in a world with a large number of disbanded soldiers.

-       Manillos still feature as a merchant class/clan, but many are found randomly out in the wild, the strangest of islands.. it almost suggests that they are a little diminished/lost and are trying to connect to markets again (again, perhaps Prima and Auria fuelled one another’s growth) 

-       Windia and Tunlan appear to have endured – chiefly as isolationist monarchies. By cell-size, they are both smaller than in BOFI, and Windia’s Great Bird power has diminished. Tunlan still retains a language barrier to the outside world, accessible to only royal family (HighFort’s Treasure), and Windia doesn’t really hold a military presence outside its immediate kingdom (which is consistent with BOFI). The thriving Manillo market of BOFI’s Tunlan is nowhere to be found here. I suspect Prima’s trade empire collapsed, and Tunlan has withdrawn further from the world.

-       SimaFort and the Creeper Clan are new, and don’t really have much outward military capability (it might all be for show, as the self-destruct feature below SimaFort revealed). Frogs existed near Gant in BOFI, perhpas they fleed/migrated to occupy the area around Spring.

-      Other clans appear to have lost ancestral homes on the overworld: Forest Clan (Bo), Digger Clan (Mogu), Worens (Lin/Tiga), Aradians.

 

So, the world at conclusion at of Goonheim saw many of the great clans/regions of BOFI broken and in a sort of Dark Ages. 

Was it Goonheim? Its not explicit one way or the other – but an inter-tribal/global conflict around a rediscovered Obelisk/Carronade magiteck would certainly explain: the shifting landscape, disappearance of kingdoms, and diminished world order. If the Dragon Clan were absent during this conflict (having shifted to Dologany), it would make sense that the other tribes might have risen up and the world lacked a moderating/pacifying force to steam the tide of war.

-    (Aside)   BOFI Nina tells BOFII Nina that the clan’s loss of the Great Bird was due to her intermariage with an outsider (presumably Ryu I). Maybe the Goonheim conflict, and Carronade magitek had a role in this as well?

It could be theorised that the Goonheim conflict, and the power it summoned, awoke Deis. Whether or not she had a direct hand in the conflict (with or without a band of adventurers) – she was a witness to its conclusion. However it was, she lost Wisdon, and was neither the heroic or ambitious stewart the world needed to guide its people to heal. She’s lost her home, turns to drink, is now restlessness, and entertains flights of fancy (cosplaying a student at the academic).

-       The thing about an Endless, however, is that this isn’t her first rodeo of Empires rising and falling. She’s probably a bit of a moral relativist and, if Myria/DeathEvan/Carronade Tech are not active on the scene, she’s likely to not be overly concerned with the weight of the affairs of mortals (hence why her personality seems relatively the same between BOFI and BOFII). Without knowing her involvement in Goonheim, she seems even less interventionist, compared to BOFI.

                                     

Altogether, these are perfect conditions for a new world-religion (St. Eva) to spread without a significant opposing threat.

 

---Time passes, the destined child grows up, opens the gate, and defeats DeathEvan.  

The ‘Good Ending’ of BOFII à the emergence of a pluralistic society, situated under a puppet monarchy.

So Ganer saves the day, Ryu is the hero a broken world can turn to after it is revealed that St Eva was a lie. Nomadic tribes and broken kingdoms find sanctuary in Township’s expanding wealth and technology. Our BOFII player actions of recruiting random NPCs for this village offers a pluralistic alternative to the inter-tribal warfare of Goonheim and BOFI. This is proven with the recruitment of Shamans, player party allies, humans, a Creeper sculpter and an undercover HighFort Princess*. Over time, a pluralistic society becomes the norm. 

Over an undisclosed time - Caer Xhan happens, Myria also becomes guardian of the world. As per her BOFIV Elena template, Myria fashions herself as a Fae (with off-white, upside-down wings), and provides a safe haven from the dying world (cause directly by her, or by the magicteck of the Carronade Township or the void scar of DeathEvan), managed under the kingdom of Windia. The Windian royal family remain her willing or unwitting vassals, while any new clans that emerge are no more than regional identities under service of Myria (Urkans). Under this kingdom, a pluralistic society endures as the norm: Aradians live alongside Iron Ogres, Creepers, Shells, Grassrunners, and others.  This can be found in the area surrounding Gemel (the Cafe), Dauna Mines, Rhapala Port and Junk Town.  A pluralistic society works for her in that clans united, might find their strength and purpose (Rei). Faes’ are historically relatively pacifist and isolationist – so they make non-threatening and virtuous figureheads of state. 

The outlying areas at the peripheral of Myria’s grasp, recieve less direct attention, and thus the maleficence of her Carronade-corrupt Endless nature enables the empowerment of the SinCity Syndicate as a more ‘blunt-force’ instrument at managing her ‘children’. As a syndicate, they are a bit of managed chaos, hence his henchmen keeping tabs on McNeil, rising stars of Gemel's Coliseum and our favourite orphans Rei, Teepo and Ryu?

-       Mikba looks suspiciously like a Guardian, does he not? Maybe his role is to keep power and ambition in check as a sort of Mafia boss?  Doesn’t Garr act sort of the same way when we meet him? Gaist’s transformation is a more extreme version of Mikba, because he was charge with Dragon hunting, vs. Mikba is for managing non-Endless mortals. Wish we could have seen what was north of the checkpoint... Maybe Mikba was trying to escape the reach of Myria and ‘he’ of all people, would know best where it might be possible to hide form her grasp?

Why is it only Nina that actually compels action against the Syndicate’s corruption? Why are there two portals in Windia, one in the castle basement? Another portal close to the Syndicate in Dauna, and others at Steele Beach, near Kombinat, and the Container Yard near Caer Xhan? If I had suggested Jade and Ganer’s relationship to a sort of thrall to Myria/DeathEvan... maybe that’s the same case with Windia’s King and Queen? BOFIII Nina certainly thinks they are out of touch with the real world and the going ons of their kingdom. The people of Kombinat show that there's no shortage of people in the land beyond the sea that have succumbed to an empty thrall-like existence. 

-       Honey, Momo’s companion, is revealed as one of Myria’s mechanical servants from Caer Xhan. As only she is able to initially operate these magicteck portals – it would be feasible that Myria (who lives at the epicenter of this tech) has sent/recieved agents through these. Explains Mikba and the Balio and Sunder as her direct agents, as you can fight prototypes of Mikba and Stallion within her station. It would have been nice if the game gave you a bit more insight into Honey’s creation and role. Does she belong to Caer Xhan, or Myria? Is her existance pre-, or post-Myria? Is there a reason (self-fear of her Carronade) that she lives only in the company of these machines, monstrous experiments (Chimera) and a neutralised Teepo?

Final Sign-Off (for real): I said I was done with theory crafting, and now I really hope that’s true. From this, there’s a foundation to the state of the world leading up to BOFII’s setting, and there’s a possible map of events that lead to the structure of Myria’s world under the BOFIII kingdom of Windia. Again, it should remain logically consistent and thematically cohesive. Any of these ideas that make way into your future patches would be a joy. Perhaps they just give you some prompting to think about how your own ideas work to close some loose ends, and propel the story forward.

 With appreciation.

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digbigson1 year ago

Bugs/QoL/Economy/Combat Balance [3.2 up to rescuing Ganer encounter in Evrai]

 Compared to 3.0, this continues to be a much more polished experience – Thank you for all the fun! Natural level progression = 30, with some individual characters reaching 40, and 80. Most of the Bugs/QoL are pretty minor, with some suggestions for combat balance as players make their way towards Evrai.


People & Places (NPCs, Vendors, Zones):

  • Township: Brick Carpenter Township village – Recruited Items and Armor tenants do not function/activate in their shops.
  • Capitan: Shelves in back of Capitan’s Log Cabin are inaccessible.
    • Brick Carpenter does not provide text in explaining what he offers, compared to other carpenters.
  • SimaFort: Barrel at Campsite dock (to Simafort), is inaccessible.
  • Tunlan: Accessing Radiant Shaman in Tunlan still requires a weird walk-through-walls invisible maze.
  • Namanda: Passage at back of Namanda cave (right of bells) is inaccessible. This could be a nice opportunity to expand his quest with monster encounters. 
  • Cotland: Claris’ sprite is mini at Cotland* introduction, compared to Taiga and party sprites
  • Windia: In contrast, King of Windia is king-sized in his king-sized bed.
  • Cooking: Some cooked consumables cannot be used outside of battle (like stat boosts).
  • Character duplicates: Cut scenes where characters are involved (Bosch vs Trout, Jean cooking in the kitchen) can create character duplicates if character is also in party. What if they left party for particular sequences?
  • Camping: Intimate camp scenes (Lin/Nina) will swap Ryu with whomever is in character slot 1. I got Rand in first scene with Lin.
    • Is Ryu meant to be polyamorous? The game would seem to incentivise you to romance both Lin/Nina if you were worried about their respective character events (Taiga and Windia). Both companions seem to lay it on pretty fast with Ryu if you spam the camp event. What if these character camp items were consumable, or had story-progress checks to spread out these subplots overtime. Is treating either/both of them as ‘sisters’ enough to achieve positive outcomes in their respective quests? (Great Bird & Taiga)
  •  Cross party of dialogue: dialogues needs a condition check for ‘order of appearance’. Sten’s first dialogue to Lin is a heartfelt apology... later on I got the dialogue where the argument ensues that explains the reason for the apology.
    • Rand to Aspara is a bit emersion breaking. Rand’s unprompted adoration and affirmation of Aspara seems out of character for him, and characters’ overall relationship with one another at that point in the adventure.

Combat/Character stats  

DIFFICULTY PROGRESSION: Following initial difficulty jump at Joker’s Lair, mob progression is far more reasonable thereafter (provided you use all of what’s available to you -i.e. Ryu equipped with Fire Shaman). Level progression by end of Capitan sequence was 20. FANTASTIC CHANGE from 3.1 (where I had easily reached Lvl. 40). I really liked the mobs underwater at SimaFort – the bubble mechanic with the puffer fish was a great ‘time waster’ in a timed-sequence. Clever!

  •  SLEEP STATUS DEBUFF: If party is put to sleep, they do not wake up if not targeted by enemy. This happened in Nimfu fight (condition stays at 1 turn while Nimfu spammed Buffs). Eventually awoke upon hit with ‘death’ spell. Condition should wear off naturally.
  • MANIPULATING BATTLE TURN ORDER: If selecting ‘MEMORY’ option for character turns, a turn spent using ‘GUARD’ ought not have the menu cursor default back to ‘ATTACK on the subsequent turn. Leaving it on ‘GUARD’ speeds up movement through party turns when waiting for Aspara to learn Lore, or get to a slower character’s turn (where Katt/Nina has three turns in a row). Alternatively, adjust Aspara’s ability pool to include an ‘OBSERVE’ command would help to alleviate this.
  • ASPARA: Is there a way to view Aspara’s Lore abilities from menu screen? A sort of indication of how many are available in total (or available by region/beastiary?)
    • Also, is there a ‘cap’ on # of LORES Aspara can learn? Aspara got hit with some Lores in battle and there was a message prompt that indicated she has learned it, but they do not appear in LORE for use in subsequent battles: eg. Kuwadora’s Devil ___ ability, OwlFruit boss’ AOE Fire attack. I hope this is a bug, and that all LORES can be learnt.   
  • LIN: Her special character quest (Woren Graveyard) triggers a battle with Ifreet. For this fight, there is no battle field transition and the fight plays out with a fuzzed out zone background (showing both party members’ in-battle sprites, and out of battle sprites).
  • MIXIE: joins at player level (alongside Jean), but has significantly less XP requirements to her level progression (reminiscent of BOFI Nina/Deis). She reached Level 80 by Evrai, compared to Ryu’s Lvl. 30.
  • NINA: could benefit from some extra AOE abilities prior to Kirin? Nothing overpowered, but something to help contribute in non-boss fights.  In BoFII, she joined with AOE Thunder, and then learned S.Boom (lvl. 14?) and then Flame (lvl. 20?). It would be nice to see a smooth progression of elemental spells across single, random, and AOE targets.
  • RAND: Formula for minor heal – is it based on the recipient’s stat? Not sure, but its very ineffectual and relatively expensive, given Rand’s natural MP pool. I would recommend a BUFF.
  • STEN: Currently no encounters/interactions in the Thieves Tomb quest (Sten) aside from the final encounter. Floor tiles present an interesting opportunity, ghost Turbos are ethereal and don’t trigger an encounter. This is on ‘modern encounters setting’.

 Special Character quests provide some characters (Mixie, Jean, Aspara) with huge XP gains that break progression balance (lv 26 à 36). Others (Rand/Lin) don’t have this boost. The quests are short, so in Aspara’s case, one boss fight = 10Lvl gains for her. 

  • That said, was nice to use Mixie’s HEX ability to effect for this fight.
    • It would be nice for some prompt/condition check to have Lin/Sten/Aspara in active party for their character event battle. You can see how character bosses are ‘designed’ around their focus character.
    • If individual characters were to keep 100% of XP gained in their battles, then they should fight them SOLO. Nice reason to invest in all characters’ growth and playstyle.

 Economics/Loot/Equipment progression

  • WELL  UNDERNEATH CAPITAN: ant denizens dropped Great Swords like candy, selling for a cool 2,500 each. I had about 8 of these and I think there’s need for further tweaks to the LOOT and overall economic progression.
  • GEAR: Due to the way Crests/Crystals/Gems/Runes work, I stopped participating in armor/weapon upgrades beyond initial character recruitment (500z tier). Given final tier weapons all cost 5,000z and have a focus towards ‘added effects’, it seemed that upgrading/changing strategies was “optional” rather than “essential”. Early access to Dragon Shrine Island and Prima Market seemed a little early and akin to a ‘debug menu mode’ where I could have access to the whole game’s item resources. I’m not sure whether this is the intent, or if the scaling will change in future patches.
  • LOOT: Some relic rewards are seemingly overpowered for the time you get them (Sable Eye, Sten’s Gauntlet) and may encourage less party build diversity.
    • Example, I equipped Nina with the relic obtained after the whale dungeon. It doesn’t ‘speed’ her up relative to allies, but it seemingly gives her another 3-4 actions per combat round. Wicked for rinse and repeat unloading spells. It seems like game progression kind of demands this – but I suppose a good question is: is it the blade that makes the warrior, or the warrior that makes the blade?
  • CONSUMABLES: For Mana potions, a 5pt recovery seems a bit low for tier-1 consumable. Why not 10 or 20pts, in theme with Acorns/Wisdom Seeds.

Balance

TWEAKING RYU'S DRAGON TRASNFORMATION MECHANICS:

  • BUG - Ryu enters battle with his Dragon Breath attack (instead of standard Attack) if he wins the previous battle in dragon form. To fix, you have to Dragon transform again, and then ‘Revert’.
  • Have you thought about the possibility of Ryu’s dragon transformation being a ‘new character’ with ‘separate HP/MP/CP’ stats  (as per BOFIII mechandics)? Currently, it is a sprite change, which I assume also offers a direct boost to wider ATK/MAG stats. Swaping to a new/separate character stat set (based on Ryu stats(+%) could result in a couple gameplay strategies:
    • A critical-condition Ryu might transform to a dragon as a sort of ‘second wind/desperation attack’. I remember BoFIII building around this, and it could be a strategic way to delay jumping into dragon form at the start of combat, wearing down boss encounter with Ranger skillset first, transforming when boss barrages become too much.
    •  Death in dragon form would trigger ‘Revert’ back to human, rather than death for Ryu. This would also parallel BOFIII mechanics.
    • Since Ryu is only half-dragon, what if ‘Revert’ sends him to critical-HP status? This would demonstate the taxing nature of the transformation, and perhaps there’s a cool down where he cannot immediately transform again. Helps to keep the Ranger skillset relevant throughout the game.
  • In response to the above, what if GUTS restored Ryu’s HP at critical, and charged the next transformation opportunity? This would be a key first-response following Revert, limit impacts on wider party MP/consummable item use, and slow down Dragon Spaming. Currently, dragon transformations are free, and I guess it adds more gravity/weight and strategy to Light/Dark transformation, compared to a low-MP cost, free use Dragon model of BOFI.
  • I previously suggested Ryu cannot use item/consumables in Dragon form. Maybe conventional healing does not work on Dragons and Ryu needs an inn (not camping) or special item (Ambrosia) to heal his dragon form - as was the case in BOFIV. This would also add importance/priority to any siphon abilities to heal as a Dark Dragon, and maybe ‘Wind Dragon’ abilities offers a REGEN for his Light Dragon path. It also presses us, the player, to invest skills in wider Dragon ability skill-set (backups/plan Bs) if their main option gets eliminated.
    • YUA: Perhaps Yua has a ability that only BUFFs/Heals a Dragon.
    • BOSCH: As a loyal Dog, perhaps hunter Bosch can toss a Dragon a bone (hunting spoils) for HP recovery? 
      •  this would add greater emphasis to hunting/fishing.
    • DEIS: Maybe Dies has some of that Endless energy to channel to Dragon Ryu’s HP pool?

·      Suddenly, these characters become important to Dragon-based Ryu builds, and work for a range of party compositions.

  • Tier 2 Dragon skill tree: Dragon Breaths (AOE) seem underpowered, compared to other character options. Fully boosted Fire Dragon, 2nd Tier transformation, for instance, is underwhelming compared to Ryu attacking with x3 strike & fire elemental.
    • I suppose that’s a consequence of my build? I avoided skill tree abilities that rose SPECIAL at the expense of melee ATTACK. If some of the trade-offs I mentioned above are integrated, there would be less need to have a zero-sum game build across Ryu’s Ranger vs Dragon skill trees. It would also help emphasis to the player that both Ranger and Dragon skills are required to build to manage the full range of combat situations.

 

BOSS FIGHTS:  Recommend that autosaves only trigger when entering new zones, not in advance of boss battles.

  • Kuwadora:
    • Autosaved with a sub-obtimal party pre-battle (Ryu, Aspara, Nina and Jean at 50% Health. Kuwardora’s opening move would determine the fight. Lots of do-overs for favourable RNG. Following, I HAD to apply Jean’s Flood spell to Debuff Kuwardora’s ATK, and then boost Ryu’s ATK/DEF with a cooked meal to survive his barrages (Ryu with WrymGuard Cover support move). Wearing Kuwadora down with Bleed and Inflammed/Poison was key (Ryu’s Shock Oil/Aspara’s Lore), and it was a battle of attrition, thanks to RNG & Consummables, rather than a balanced team effort.
    • Mobs leading up to him were fun/balanced, but the autosave pre-battle means I cannot enter menu and plan for boss fight appropriately after defeat (prior save was an hour before).
  • Taiga:
    • I like the paralyse move that you coded to Taiga to use on the party (save Ryu). Clever way to make it  ‘same same, but different’ to the original one-on-one encounter. That said, I think Taiga is too tough for a Level 25-30 Ryu. I had to fight off silence, heal, use GUTS, then bring him down via CHOPCHOP. Felt like I cheesed the fight via CHOPCHOP, otherwise this was a wall. Without AUTOSAVE, it would have been easier to plan a proper response (resisting SILENCE, Buffing DEF).
      • I this playthrough, I forgot to do the Tunlan quest, and so perhpas Taiga is a level check against all the optional character quests?
    • CHOPCHOP – once I discovered its use, I realised the skill is kind of broken. What if the damage formula was dmg = ATK, to-hit=100% ? Meaning, if Ryu had an attack stat of 80, that’s what it would do, full stop. What I currently think it does is offer defense piercing damage, with full advantage of all the other ATK boosts Ryu currently has (leading to +1,000 damage on hit).
      •  Situational advantages to ATK stat = dmg:
        • 100% accurate (good against high evasion), 100% DEF piecing (will always do dmg=ATK).
        • This would be great against unique encounters at that too fast, too high in PHYS/DEF, but lowHP. We’ve seen this in the series with the integration of BOFII MiniSentry, Inifinity Robots, Giant Island Fly,  BOFIII Eggman/Acorn enemies, or any high EVA/LowHP mage enemy.
  • Ganer: BUG - It would seem killing just two of the three magictek eyes is sufficient for releasing Ganer from captivity.

 

FUTURE STORY EXPANSION SUGGESTIONS: Making more of your large character roster, and expanding the world

PARTY SPLIT: If you integrate Yua, you’ve got a potential secondary party leader... someone with her own mission that needs support/watchful eye.

  • In the original game, you spent a good part of the late game trying to track Patty down across her various efforts to build funds for Cotland’s resistance. You also had to track her down to warn her about GATE.
  • Could there be a split party event/dungeons where the resistance has a bit of a laundry list of missions that are plot-time sensitive, requiring a split approach to meet the next objective?
    • If you’re playing SOLO Ryu, you could still centre it around a story split between brother and sister, whereby you might elect certain characters to accompany/escort Yua on a dangerous mission or heist.

The following are unsolicited half-baked ideas for either whole or split party quests:

  • Maybe one group has to visit and appeal to Guntz to join the resistance effort?
  •  Perhaps another group has to make contact with Prima, and discover that St Eva agents are part of the ongoing disruptions to the global trade network? (part of their effort to control flows of information).
  • What purpose does Bunyan taking over Coursair have in the story? Does he need help and is there an opportunity to go back into the arena? Maybe someone has defected/escaped from St Eva Church, has information that is required to inflirtate Evrai (code words), but is a bit of a broken soul and must be bested in arena combat.
  • I previously mentioned a archeological excavation of Wisdon, supporting Deis, to find an incantation thomb relating to bringing down a magical barrier or grounding/lifting a floating structure.

Latter game, pre-infinity stages:

  • Evrai: This dungeon is a good contender for expansion to make a longer gauntlet (since we don’t have Bando as a dungeon, prior). Perhaps a B-Squad joins Claris as part of a two-pronged infiltration of Evrai?
    • Ray: You’ve expanded his dialogue in his Evrai scene, but in doing so, his character seems a little less believeable. I wonder if there could be some expansion to his character and influence in the story?
      • Remembering Jade aided BOFI Ryu with advice on how to infiltrate Scande, what if Ray tries to help Ryu achieve the same, but it otherwise unable to escape his bondage/fate with Evrai?
      • What if Yua confronts him at the conclusion of B-squad quest. Maybe without Ryu to stand up to him with Kaiser, Ray’s power knocks out the party and Ryu’s squad now has a to rescue that whole team?
  • Crisis at Gate: Maybe the party needs to split in order to respond to the initial attack on the Dragon/Valerie by Father Hulk at Gate? These demons originally went for Bird, Mina, but what if they terrorised the Kingdoms across the land looking for Yua (who leaves party after rescue at Evrai)?  

These are just a couple of suggestions through which you can compel the player to try out different party compositions, expand story/lore opportunities, and have fun with the character mechanics you’ve built into them all. This would help avoid situations where people might instead of playing through the 2nd half of the game with one party, loaded up with all the best gear, like: Ryu-Nina-Lin-Rand. It also helps us to connect with Patty/Yua and make her feel like a fully realised character, as opposed to a plot device for Ryu’s characterization (as was in the original).

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