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The Theme! Sticky

A topic by StandOffSoftware created 60 days ago Views: 1,083 Replies: 18
Viewing posts 1 to 10
Host (1 edit) (+1)(-1)

The theme of the jam is The Dunning-Kruger Effect.

The protagonist must be the smartest person in the game, but everyone including themselves believes they are the dumbest person.

For example, they could be a scientist who everyone considers to be incompetent, but is actually a genius, or the least moronic of a group of morons, etc.

The intelligence discrepancy must be the main driver of the plot and source of conflict, instrumental to the story and the goals of the protagonist, not just something that happens in one part. The character must truly believe themselves to be the dumbest person present, not just pretending to be. It could be revealed at the end that they are smart, but doesn't have to be and cannot be revealed before the end.

Have fun with the jam!

(1 edit)

Interesting..🤔

By a crazy coincidence, this just popped in in my YouTube feed: 

I'm still deciding on this one ... Might actually give it a go this year, depending on scheduling stuff. I am not personally a huge fan of the mythology surrounding the DK effect, nor do I get much of a charge out of most stories that place a hapless intellectual "ugly duckling" in a sea of foolish intellectual "swans," but therein might lie the potential for an interesting challenge...maybe. If my OCD driven pedantry can get past the initial hurdle. That, I suppose, is my own albatross to bear. 

I do have one question / clarification request. 

When you specify that [the fact that the MC is "smart"] "can't be revealed until the end," do you mean to the audience / player of the game, or the protagonist? I am assuming it's the latter, because the former option feels like it'd be close to impossible to execute without obfuscating the theme itself (i.e. if the unwitting player can't tell that the MC is the most competent person in the game, either througout the entire game or until the end, then how could the judges possibly know for sure if the game is even adhering to the constraint and isn't about a character who is actually the least competent person in a milleu of incompetents), but making sure, just in case,

Submitted

I asked Vance (organizer) on discord this question: "Can we reveal the discrepancy to the player from the very beginning, or only at the very end?"

Here is his answer:

"Yes the player knows from the beginning"

Makes sense. Thank you.

(+2)

Now a separate post born of my compulsive pedantry. This is not a comment on the theme itself, but simply an unsolicited pseudo-educational PSA  / screed / pet peeve, for anyone who might not know much about this topic and is interested. This might allow such folks to be better informed when invoking the Dunning-Kruger effect in discussions outside of the specific ruleset defined here.  

Firstly, there is a lot to suggest that the "effect" itself is largely bunk, or at least not consistent enough to be considered anything beyond ... a phenomenon that sometimes occurs, but not necessarily in a universal correlative or causal pattern. This is true for a lot of experiments and studies in the social sciences, and no shade to Dunning and Kruger themselves. It's just that their results are predictably limited and don't (and perhaps can't) account for the breadth of cultural, social, and individual factors at play. It IS, in my opinion, a useful phenomenon, and potential fallcy / bias, to keep in mind if one wants to live what might be called "an examined life," so it's not like I'd throw the baby out with the bathwater on this one. It's good to constantly examine one's own faults and limitations, and doing so can probably make us all wiser, if not necessarily "smarter" or more competent. 

Secondly, and this very much complicates and informs the above, the idea that the DK effect is about inherent intelligence is a common misreading. It primarily deals with the discrepancy between one's actual competence and knowledge, as applied to specific and discrete areas, and one's own perception of their competence and knowledge in that discrete field.  Might seem like semantics, but this becomes an important distinction when we, collectively and individually, try to examine ourselves and our biases, because it implies, correctly, that nobody, and I mean nobody, is excempt from this so called effect, regardless of how book-smart or street-smart they are - someone could be a Nobel prize winning theoretical physicist and still easily fall prey to it, perhaps even more so, as they are likely to have an overinflated sense of their own general competence based on their other specific achievements. They might, for example, believe that they can quickly and easily figure out how to fix the engine of their car better than a "common" mechanic, or may underplay the challenges of most artistic pursuits and assume that they themselves are inherently capable enough to paint like Sargent or compose like Beethoven ... if only they wanted to ...  but, of course, they simply choose not to try ... because they have more important things to do.

Of course, one can have demonstrable proof of their brain's "above average" cognitive speed and processing capacity, and still fall victim to the effect's flipside, which essentially means that they experience severe imposter syndrome, regardless how many awards or accolates they accumulate, regardless of the fact that they are, objectively, the world's foremost expert on X, and teach a course on X at Columbia. This, of course, is a matter for them and their therapist to sort out. However, pretty much all people are equally susceptible to both sides of the cognitive bias, and there are absolutely various cultural and socioeconmic factors at play that have nothing to do with what we'd call "inherent intelligence." There are plenty of people who, due to circumstances outside of their control,  end up "underperforming" in a variety of areas, and blaming this entirely on their own perceived lack of competence and intelligence. Similarly, when someone has had everything handed to them their entire life, they are more likely to feel justified in all kinds of internal Dunning-Kruger nonsense, whether they are actually below average, entirely average, or highly intelligent. 

And that's just a really long winded way of saying what most people without my particularly awful brain, and yeah, I recognize both the resonance and the irony in this statement, could probably explain in just one short paragraph.

In short, the actual, real world Dunning-Kruger effect has nothing to do with how "smart" or "stupid" anyone is, and is in fact a cognitive-bias that NOBODY gets a pass on and EVERYBODY can be, and likely has been, at one point or another, affected by - it, in itself, is really just a very messy overcomplication of what I'd consider a fairly solid bit of folk wisdom (i.e. hubris is bad ... remember, thou art foolish ... etc.)      

(1 edit)

Hi, the theme is "Dunning-Kruger Effect" but the description is about the "Imposter Syndrome". So follow the Theme or follow the Description?

Submitted

The description

(1 edit)

I’m also a bit confused at the theme/description. (I will ignore the title theme now since it seems we should follow the description). I would think there are several ways to suffer from Imposter Syndrome - for example, as soeone else mentioned in the thread, it’s possible that everyone else believes in the worth of the protagonist, but they themselves don’t believe it. So rather than a suggested theme, this is more of a specific narrative we’d have to follow? We could, say, opt to actually make one or two character believe in the worth of the protagonist…

In themes, I would say they are helpful to enhance creativity, but less helpful if they describe the exact narrative that will take place?… this is my opinion. Of course, even that can be lightly switched but there isn’t much room to create different characters if “everyone” believes the protagonist is the dumbest person in the room. I mean, that’s also possible if you live all your life surrounded by people like that, but usually one time or another you’ll find someone supportive. I don’t know. It’s a little reflection. I would argue I’d be able to do something with it, but I feel my hands are tied, and I’m wondering how tied they actually are or if I’m just interpreting it too literally.

E.g. It’s highly probable that people don’t even think you’re “the dumbest person” but simply don’t notice you and don’t think much about you. In fact, often that’s the case, as humans tend to think more about themselves and be overly critical of themselves than of other people. And when they are, that’s more of a projection because of their own insecurity. E.g. I think you have the worst hair (blond) but only because I have my blond hair myself.

Submitted

Thinking you're the dumbest person doesn't mean you think you're dumb. You could just overestimate a lot the skills of your peers

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So it’s not necessarily about dumbness but could be about general ineptitude or a feeling of being different from your peers / your peers feeling you’re different from them? I mean, that’s cool if there’s that flexibility.

PS: I loved your game no rest for the wicked :)

Submitted

Oh, thanks :) I hope you'll like this one too!

Okay, I thought that I understood the theme, then that I didn't, then that I did, and, finally, that I didn't again. Watching videos about the DK effect didn't help.

Host(-3)

The Dunning-Kruger effect is just a cute title. I know it doesn't completely fit. The full theme, as always, is in the post, not the theme title.

(3 edits) (+2)

Ah, goshdarnit. I guess should come to see what people write in the community, before working on a game. Yea the theme is NOT Dunning-Kruger, great. Time to rethink my whole game, because it was about that.

Please, next time, don't just use fancy words you don't know the meaning of.
As the theme text, could just use something like "Protagonist is the smartest person, but they and everyone else believes the opposite."

I guess a real DK effect happened here. Host promised something and fell short in their competence. Followed theme to the letter!

Happy jamming!

Host(-2)

That's why the main page says "Read the following closely for the specific rules"

(+3)

The false theme naming throws off unnecessarily in the beginning. And only just now I saw a link under it now that you mentioned it.
Many people just quickly check the theme from the main page to get to brainstorming asap, and as the theme sounded so fancy and unknown, it's wikipedia time!
And sure okay maybe shouldn't always trust wikipedia either, but it's describing anything but your detailed rules.
So this was averagely designed, feels like, I'm sorry. I don't think I'm alone in this.

(+1)

Agreed, I had a lot of confusion trying to connect Dunning-Kruger to what's written in the post. Relieved it wasn't just me, hope other people see this thread