I couldn't kill anything. The mouse controls are a good idea but the implementation needs work; I'd often move my mouse in a direction and click to charge, but it wouldn't take affect, and by the time I clicked again the direction prompt usually faded and I had to try again. You should implement input queuing for this and it'd feel a lot better.
Input queuing would also be good for after attacks, I often wanted to charge again but had to wait until the animation is done, which is annoying because I have enough in the world to think about than looking at the viewmodel animation.
The metroid prime map ui is amazing, placing markers is a cool idea too, I'm sure it will be more useful in the future.
I'd change the health from numbers to a bar, I thought the blue bar would be my health and didn't even notice the numbers until my third try after dying.
Everything is too hard and fast, maybe it'd be better with a proper introduction and level design, but traditionally skeletons are supposed to be the easiest enemy in these games.
I really like the aesthetic you're going for so far, keep working on it.
>I'd often move my mouse in a direction and click to charge, but it wouldn't take affect, and by the time I clicked again the direction prompt usually faded and I had to try again.
Not sure what exactly you're referring to here. I've never had any problems with it simply not registering mouse clicks or the arrow disappearing too soon. There's a sensitivity slider if that's relevant.
>I often wanted to charge again but had to wait until the animation is done, which is annoying because I have enough in the world to think about than looking at the viewmodel animation.
You're right about it not returning you to the idle state as soon as it should, but certain attacks can be chained together as soon as the active frames stop.
>I'd change the health from numbers to a bar
It's a number because there are items that increase your max health, and a number is more readable when you're working with relative small numbers and enemies that all do a fixed amount of damage.
>Everything is too hard and fast, maybe it'd be better with a proper introduction and level design, but traditionally skeletons are supposed to be the easiest enemy in these games.
The skeletons *are* easy, though. You just have to not fight them from the front since they outrange you. Both of the melee enemy types in the demo are slower than you and can't hit you as long as you're moving and avoid getting cornered.
I don't wanna be rude, but the real problem of your game is your adamantine will to not let us play it.
I've reached the third set of rooms this time, but only thanks to your help given in the stream:
- I agree that the normal setting for mouse move>attack is too high
- The secret health powerup it's so invisible that it hurts. I don't even know if the red aura you can see through the wall is intended or not. But even if its there to help you, the secret button to open the door its a mechanic never explained, and its the same damn color of the wall. As you saw in the stream itself, even if you know it's there it's hard to find.
- This powerup is a layered problem, because after we activate both levers downstairs you lock us off the health station and save point. So its vital to continue. By your design, we need to fight: a lancer skl, a projectile shooters, 2 proj shooters, a zombie + skl lancer AND a life or death platforming section in a row. That's unreasonable, I know its not the first level of the game, but then please please make a demo of something that can be a first level!
I was filtered by the last jump of the platform section, (I tried 5-6 times before giving up) dunno if you have coyote time or not, but the real problem are the death spikes.
>The secret health powerup it's so invisible that it hurts.
Things like that aren't a concern right now. The game doesn't even have any lighting at all. I just threw that secret in there because the thought came up and it was simple to do.
>the secret button to open the door its a mechanic never explained
It's explained later in the level. I never expected anyone to find that button.
>we need to fight: a lancer skl, a projectile shooters, 2 proj shooters, a zombie + skl lancer AND a life or death platforming section in a row. That's unreasonable
I know I'm saying this as the developer, but all those encounters are fairly trivial in isolation if you figure out the enemies' attack patterns and take it slow, and you have the opportunity to heal inbetween them. If you have the patience, the healing salve is infinite healing.
>I know its not the first level of the game, but then please please make a demo of something that can be a first level
I have a good idea of what I want the first area to be like, and I can't make that until I have the next area blocked out, so it'll have to wait.
>I was filtered by the last jump of the platform section, (I tried 5-6 times before giving up) dunno if you have coyote time or not, but the real problem are the death spikes.
That room was thrown together a bit haphazardly. It was meant to be dark so that you'd have to use the crystal to light your way, but since I'm not doing anything lighting-related yet, it ended up like that for now. There is coyote time, and it's pretty generous, but it's not meant to be required anywhere. All the jumps in the spike room are definitely doable without it, but I guess it's a lot harder when you haven't had the opportunity to get a feel for the jumping.
Good option menu setup. Visuals are so-so, but I really like the 3D map and marker system. I sort of like using the forward/back mouse buttons, but it probably shouldn't be default since many people don't have 5+ button mice. Movement is alright, but combat felt clunky. The direction of attack was annoying to deal with, and sometimes it didn't seem to register I was trying to charge an attack. The latter point is probably due to not letting the player attack if they're too close to a wall, but it feels bad when you're stopped from charging an attack in that instance. Other mechanics like smoke walls seem interesting, though not much to them at the moment. I managed to beat the skeleton but couldn't figure how to get past the magic turret.
>The latter point is probably due to not letting the player attack if they're too close to a wall, but it feels bad when you're stopped from charging an attack in that instance
True. I should make it ignore it ignore the distance check towards the right when you're close to a wall if you try attacking in any direction other than right. If you were bothered by what happens when charging a thrust and getting close to a wall, it's purely visual and doesn't actually stop the timer.
I wanted to wait until I managed to kill the skelling before giving feedback so I could take in more of what you've got available, but I've been absolutely filtered by it. If I ever manage to beat it I'll come back and edit this with further thoughts. Your menus are great and motivated me to finally getting around to fixing my own.
Movement and camera controls are great. Combat feels good and rewarding when I can actually get it working (I can tell it's in it's early stages and can't wait to see how it turns out). Level and creature design are really good and just get me immersed. The one complaint I have is the combat feels very hit/miss; it either works really well or it just doesn't work at all.
Pretty advanced menu setup alredy, didn't expect that. German Translation doesn't work.
Don't bind Stuff to X/Y, please. What is a Mouse back and Mouse forward button? Controls for the Attacks are really odd. I understand that its directional, but I have to move first without pressing the Mouse, and once the Indicator appears press/hold to attack charge? I don't play a lot of those directional Combat Games, but shouldn't it be press to attack, if moving while its charging up change to directional? And the longer I hold the longer it charges?
Also ocassionally Inputs just stop working. I'm assuming when I do the Attacks wrong or try to attack to fast or something it doesn't unlock it all properly again. This is for most inputs, I can't put away the Weapon etc.
Since Enemies are super agressive, Attacking is clunky and defending is impossible since I don't know what a Mouse Forward Button is, or don't have one, Combat is pretty much impossible for me.
There's also no Indicator when I have the Shadow Barrier Thing active or not.
Journal Menu is layed out odd I think. But maybe thats just that I'm not used to it.
The Highlight to me is still your minimap, its great.
Map markers are a bit of an odd thing. I'd expect them to be in the Map screen, not as a in world Shortcut.
Loading seems to not work always. I overwrote my save with a new one, but that put me back into the beginning instead.
Holding down to Heal is terrible. The Combat is already incredibly hectic since I have to constantly strafe to avoid overly agressive Enemies that leave no Window of opportunity, can'T block, and have to also sway the Camera ruining my strafing in order to potentially have the Combat register my Input for an Attack. And then I have to run away in a tight space for a long while while holding Z in order to slowly heal a tiny bit of Damage? As the last Time, couldn't get past the Skeleton, just couldn't beat it.
I just haven't actually translated anything since my German is shit and it's not worth the effort at this point.
>Don't bind Stuff to X/Y, please
What's the issue here? I thought it was keyboard layout related, but X is in the same location on German keyboards. Also, you can just rebind the controls.
>What is a Mouse back and Mouse forward button?
The thumb buttons.
>shouldn't it be press to attack, if moving while its charging up change to directional? And the longer I hold the longer it charges?
I guess I could make it so that if you hold down the button with no direction set, it starts charging an attack when move the mouse.
>Also ocassionally Inputs just stop working. I'm assuming when I do the Attacks wrong or try to attack to fast or something it doesn't unlock it all properly again.
That's a bug that I'm aware of where you sometimes get stuck in the stunned state, and I have no clue what causes it. A lot of the time it happens when there shouldn't be anything that puts you in that state to begin with.
>Since Enemies are super agressive, Attacking is clunky and defending is impossible since I don't know what a Mouse Forward Button is, or don't have one, Combat is pretty much impossible for me.
The combat is more about avoiding attacks than blocking them. I guess I didn't mention it, but you can only block attacks made with a weapon.
>There's also no Indicator when I have the Shadow Barrier Thing active or not.
It gives off a pinkish glow and drains your mana, but I was planning on giving it some kind of sound effect while it's active. All abilities are pretty barebones right now.
>Map markers are a bit of an odd thing. I'd expect them to be in the Map screen, not as a in world Shortcut.
The markers are there so that you can quickly mark obstacles for later as you go, because I don't want the map to give you too much information on its own so that you become entirely reliant on it.
>Loading seems to not work always. I overwrote my save with a new one, but that put me back into the beginning instead.
Were you using quicksaves? I just realized I forgot to put in a check to prevent you from quicksaving outside of save rooms.
>Holding down to Heal is terrible.
The whole point of the healing being slow and preventing you from attacking at the same time is to make it risky to do during combat.
>couldn't get past the Skeleton
All you have to do to beat the skeletons is to walk past them diagonally while attacking, and avoid standing behind them so that they don't swing around.
I ment Z/Y not X/Y. It is true that I can rebind, but its annoying. Also I'm lefthanded, so those are more difficult to reach for me with my Thumb.
My Mouse doesn't have Thumb Buttons, and I'm assuming most don't. You shouldn't bind anything to Buttons that aren't default either.
I was strafing around the Skeleton, but that Combat is just too hard for me, with the directional Swings and avoiding the very long range attack of the Skeleton. Alongside with Healing not really being a Thing during that fight and the limited Space.
>My Mouse doesn't have Thumb Buttons, and I'm assuming most don't. You shouldn't bind anything to Buttons that aren't default either.
Windows has supported 5-button mice natively since at least Vista, and any decent mouse made in the past decade has 5 buttons. It's like complaining about a game in 2007 expecting you to have a scroll wheel.
Windows also supports flight sticks and Steering Wheels. Drawing Tables and Microphone Input.
My Mouse is pretty old, its a Razer Abyssus V2 from 2014, but thats way newer then 2007. Just searching on Amazon gives me 2 out of 10 Results in the Top 10 that actually have any additional Buttons besides LMB/RMB and Mousewheel Scroll. You can not expect every Player to have extra Mouse Buttons or specific Input Devices. You can recommend People should have a specific Input Way, like Controllers or extra Mouse Buttons, but your default PC Input should be playable completely by LMB/RMB Basic Keyboard.
*Edit: It is fine to offer additional not needed Functionality on extra Buttons, or bind Inputs to those in addition, Zooming by scrolling Mousewheel, or swapping Weapons by extra Mouse buttons i.e., but every key Input, like Movement/Swapping Weapons/Attack/Block/Interact/Whatever should be playable with Core Input of your Device only. Thats Keyboard and the 2 Mouse buttons for PC, Controller for Console and single finger Gestures for Smartphones.
Spent a little time messing with the attack system. Seems like some good ideas there that aren't fully matured yet. The way I'm moving my mouse seems to do different attacks. But often left clicking doesn't attack at all. Can't quite figure out why that is, or get certain attacks to trigger reliably. I was thinking that the arrow around my cursor might have something to do with it, or is it guiding me to an objective? I like the idea of a melee game with more sophisticated attacks than light/heavy/etc..., but that feeling of clicking left mouse and having nothing happen is a bit disheartening.
The arrow shows in which direction you're moving the camera and is what decides what attack you'll do. If you're not moving the mouse you can't attack, but you can reduce the threshold for setting a direction in the settings. I was also considering making it so that light attacks choose a random direction if there's none set.
Seems like there is a "poke" attack, at least with the rapier. Could that be triggered when the mouse is below the movement threshold? Not sure how its triggered at the moment. I think having nothing happen on left click isn't ideal.
Comments
I couldn't kill anything. The mouse controls are a good idea but the implementation needs work; I'd often move my mouse in a direction and click to charge, but it wouldn't take affect, and by the time I clicked again the direction prompt usually faded and I had to try again. You should implement input queuing for this and it'd feel a lot better.
Input queuing would also be good for after attacks, I often wanted to charge again but had to wait until the animation is done, which is annoying because I have enough in the world to think about than looking at the viewmodel animation.
The metroid prime map ui is amazing, placing markers is a cool idea too, I'm sure it will be more useful in the future.
I'd change the health from numbers to a bar, I thought the blue bar would be my health and didn't even notice the numbers until my third try after dying.
Everything is too hard and fast, maybe it'd be better with a proper introduction and level design, but traditionally skeletons are supposed to be the easiest enemy in these games.
I really like the aesthetic you're going for so far, keep working on it.
>I'd often move my mouse in a direction and click to charge, but it wouldn't take affect, and by the time I clicked again the direction prompt usually faded and I had to try again.
Not sure what exactly you're referring to here. I've never had any problems with it simply not registering mouse clicks or the arrow disappearing too soon. There's a sensitivity slider if that's relevant.
>I often wanted to charge again but had to wait until the animation is done, which is annoying because I have enough in the world to think about than looking at the viewmodel animation.
You're right about it not returning you to the idle state as soon as it should, but certain attacks can be chained together as soon as the active frames stop.
>I'd change the health from numbers to a bar
It's a number because there are items that increase your max health, and a number is more readable when you're working with relative small numbers and enemies that all do a fixed amount of damage.
>Everything is too hard and fast, maybe it'd be better with a proper introduction and level design, but traditionally skeletons are supposed to be the easiest enemy in these games.
The skeletons *are* easy, though. You just have to not fight them from the front since they outrange you. Both of the melee enemy types in the demo are slower than you and can't hit you as long as you're moving and avoid getting cornered.
I don't wanna be rude, but the real problem of your game is your adamantine will to not let us play it.
I've reached the third set of rooms this time, but only thanks to your help given in the stream:
- I agree that the normal setting for mouse move>attack is too high
- The secret health powerup it's so invisible that it hurts. I don't even know if the red aura you can see through the wall is intended or not. But even if its there to help you, the secret button to open the door its a mechanic never explained, and its the same damn color of the wall. As you saw in the stream itself, even if you know it's there it's hard to find.
- This powerup is a layered problem, because after we activate both levers downstairs you lock us off the health station and save point. So its vital to continue. By your design, we need to fight: a lancer skl, a projectile shooters, 2 proj shooters, a zombie + skl lancer AND a life or death platforming section in a row. That's unreasonable, I know its not the first level of the game, but then please please make a demo of something that can be a first level!
I was filtered by the last jump of the platform section, (I tried 5-6 times before giving up) dunno if you have coyote time or not, but the real problem are the death spikes.
>The secret health powerup it's so invisible that it hurts.
Things like that aren't a concern right now. The game doesn't even have any lighting at all. I just threw that secret in there because the thought came up and it was simple to do.
>the secret button to open the door its a mechanic never explained
It's explained later in the level. I never expected anyone to find that button.
>we need to fight: a lancer skl, a projectile shooters, 2 proj shooters, a zombie + skl lancer AND a life or death platforming section in a row. That's unreasonable
I know I'm saying this as the developer, but all those encounters are fairly trivial in isolation if you figure out the enemies' attack patterns and take it slow, and you have the opportunity to heal inbetween them. If you have the patience, the healing salve is infinite healing.
>I know its not the first level of the game, but then please please make a demo of something that can be a first level
I have a good idea of what I want the first area to be like, and I can't make that until I have the next area blocked out, so it'll have to wait.
>I was filtered by the last jump of the platform section, (I tried 5-6 times before giving up) dunno if you have coyote time or not, but the real problem are the death spikes.
That room was thrown together a bit haphazardly. It was meant to be dark so that you'd have to use the crystal to light your way, but since I'm not doing anything lighting-related yet, it ended up like that for now. There is coyote time, and it's pretty generous, but it's not meant to be required anywhere. All the jumps in the spike room are definitely doable without it, but I guess it's a lot harder when you haven't had the opportunity to get a feel for the jumping.
Good option menu setup. Visuals are so-so, but I really like the 3D map and marker system. I sort of like using the forward/back mouse buttons, but it probably shouldn't be default since many people don't have 5+ button mice. Movement is alright, but combat felt clunky. The direction of attack was annoying to deal with, and sometimes it didn't seem to register I was trying to charge an attack. The latter point is probably due to not letting the player attack if they're too close to a wall, but it feels bad when you're stopped from charging an attack in that instance. Other mechanics like smoke walls seem interesting, though not much to them at the moment. I managed to beat the skeleton but couldn't figure how to get past the magic turret.
Was decent fun, hope to see you improve upon it.
>The latter point is probably due to not letting the player attack if they're too close to a wall, but it feels bad when you're stopped from charging an attack in that instance
True. I should make it ignore it ignore the distance check towards the right when you're close to a wall if you try attacking in any direction other than right. If you were bothered by what happens when charging a thrust and getting close to a wall, it's purely visual and doesn't actually stop the timer.
I wanted to wait until I managed to kill the skelling before giving feedback so I could take in more of what you've got available, but I've been absolutely filtered by it. If I ever manage to beat it I'll come back and edit this with further thoughts. Your menus are great and motivated me to finally getting around to fixing my own.
Movement and camera controls are great. Combat feels good and rewarding when I can actually get it working (I can tell it's in it's early stages and can't wait to see how it turns out). Level and creature design are really good and just get me immersed. The one complaint I have is the combat feels very hit/miss; it either works really well or it just doesn't work at all.
Pretty advanced menu setup alredy, didn't expect that. German Translation doesn't work.
Don't bind Stuff to X/Y, please. What is a Mouse back and Mouse forward button? Controls for the Attacks are really odd. I understand that its directional, but I have to move first without pressing the Mouse, and once the Indicator appears press/hold to attack charge? I don't play a lot of those directional Combat Games, but shouldn't it be press to attack, if moving while its charging up change to directional? And the longer I hold the longer it charges?
Also ocassionally Inputs just stop working. I'm assuming when I do the Attacks wrong or try to attack to fast or something it doesn't unlock it all properly again. This is for most inputs, I can't put away the Weapon etc.
Since Enemies are super agressive, Attacking is clunky and defending is impossible since I don't know what a Mouse Forward Button is, or don't have one, Combat is pretty much impossible for me.
There's also no Indicator when I have the Shadow Barrier Thing active or not.
Journal Menu is layed out odd I think. But maybe thats just that I'm not used to it.
The Highlight to me is still your minimap, its great.
Map markers are a bit of an odd thing. I'd expect them to be in the Map screen, not as a in world Shortcut.
Loading seems to not work always. I overwrote my save with a new one, but that put me back into the beginning instead.
Holding down to Heal is terrible. The Combat is already incredibly hectic since I have to constantly strafe to avoid overly agressive Enemies that leave no Window of opportunity, can'T block, and have to also sway the Camera ruining my strafing in order to potentially have the Combat register my Input for an Attack. And then I have to run away in a tight space for a long while while holding Z in order to slowly heal a tiny bit of Damage? As the last Time, couldn't get past the Skeleton, just couldn't beat it.
Sorry.
>German Translation doesn't work
I just haven't actually translated anything since my German is shit and it's not worth the effort at this point.
>Don't bind Stuff to X/Y, please
What's the issue here? I thought it was keyboard layout related, but X is in the same location on German keyboards. Also, you can just rebind the controls.
>What is a Mouse back and Mouse forward button?
The thumb buttons.
>shouldn't it be press to attack, if moving while its charging up change to directional? And the longer I hold the longer it charges?
I guess I could make it so that if you hold down the button with no direction set, it starts charging an attack when move the mouse.
>Also ocassionally Inputs just stop working. I'm assuming when I do the Attacks wrong or try to attack to fast or something it doesn't unlock it all properly again.
That's a bug that I'm aware of where you sometimes get stuck in the stunned state, and I have no clue what causes it. A lot of the time it happens when there shouldn't be anything that puts you in that state to begin with.
>Since Enemies are super agressive, Attacking is clunky and defending is impossible since I don't know what a Mouse Forward Button is, or don't have one, Combat is pretty much impossible for me.
The combat is more about avoiding attacks than blocking them. I guess I didn't mention it, but you can only block attacks made with a weapon.
>There's also no Indicator when I have the Shadow Barrier Thing active or not.
It gives off a pinkish glow and drains your mana, but I was planning on giving it some kind of sound effect while it's active. All abilities are pretty barebones right now.
>Map markers are a bit of an odd thing. I'd expect them to be in the Map screen, not as a in world Shortcut.
The markers are there so that you can quickly mark obstacles for later as you go, because I don't want the map to give you too much information on its own so that you become entirely reliant on it.
>Loading seems to not work always. I overwrote my save with a new one, but that put me back into the beginning instead.
Were you using quicksaves? I just realized I forgot to put in a check to prevent you from quicksaving outside of save rooms.
>Holding down to Heal is terrible.
The whole point of the healing being slow and preventing you from attacking at the same time is to make it risky to do during combat.
>couldn't get past the Skeleton
All you have to do to beat the skeletons is to walk past them diagonally while attacking, and avoid standing behind them so that they don't swing around.
I ment Z/Y not X/Y. It is true that I can rebind, but its annoying. Also I'm lefthanded, so those are more difficult to reach for me with my Thumb.
My Mouse doesn't have Thumb Buttons, and I'm assuming most don't. You shouldn't bind anything to Buttons that aren't default either.
I was strafing around the Skeleton, but that Combat is just too hard for me, with the directional Swings and avoiding the very long range attack of the Skeleton. Alongside with Healing not really being a Thing during that fight and the limited Space.
>My Mouse doesn't have Thumb Buttons, and I'm assuming most don't. You shouldn't bind anything to Buttons that aren't default either.
Windows has supported 5-button mice natively since at least Vista, and any decent mouse made in the past decade has 5 buttons. It's like complaining about a game in 2007 expecting you to have a scroll wheel.
Windows also supports flight sticks and Steering Wheels. Drawing Tables and Microphone Input.
My Mouse is pretty old, its a Razer Abyssus V2 from 2014, but thats way newer then 2007. Just searching on Amazon gives me 2 out of 10 Results in the Top 10 that actually have any additional Buttons besides LMB/RMB and Mousewheel Scroll. You can not expect every Player to have extra Mouse Buttons or specific Input Devices. You can recommend People should have a specific Input Way, like Controllers or extra Mouse Buttons, but your default PC Input should be playable completely by LMB/RMB Basic Keyboard.
*Edit: It is fine to offer additional not needed Functionality on extra Buttons, or bind Inputs to those in addition, Zooming by scrolling Mousewheel, or swapping Weapons by extra Mouse buttons i.e., but every key Input, like Movement/Swapping Weapons/Attack/Block/Interact/Whatever should be playable with Core Input of your Device only. Thats Keyboard and the 2 Mouse buttons for PC, Controller for Console and single finger Gestures for Smartphones.
Spent a little time messing with the attack system. Seems like some good ideas there that aren't fully matured yet. The way I'm moving my mouse seems to do different attacks. But often left clicking doesn't attack at all. Can't quite figure out why that is, or get certain attacks to trigger reliably. I was thinking that the arrow around my cursor might have something to do with it, or is it guiding me to an objective? I like the idea of a melee game with more sophisticated attacks than light/heavy/etc..., but that feeling of clicking left mouse and having nothing happen is a bit disheartening.
The arrow shows in which direction you're moving the camera and is what decides what attack you'll do. If you're not moving the mouse you can't attack, but you can reduce the threshold for setting a direction in the settings. I was also considering making it so that light attacks choose a random direction if there's none set.
Seems like there is a "poke" attack, at least with the rapier. Could that be triggered when the mouse is below the movement threshold? Not sure how its triggered at the moment. I think having nothing happen on left click isn't ideal.
I got further than I did last time. Luckily I had the power of Qwott whispering in my ear on my side.
Dud I wanna play your demo asap, you have a change log?
No, it's not at the stage where I feel that a changelog is worth the effort.