I play cards irl on regular basis, but when it comes to digital card games, I cannot say I am into spins on them. You still did a good job, but I think the bottom half of your game is more interesting than the top, if you get what I mean. I hope the video is going to be useful to you.
There's a lot going on, but it's not too bad to keep up with. There's some arbitrary concepts like caltrops and defending cards, but you implemented tooltips to go along side things which I think is nice. Having to click instead of just hovering over stuff is kind of weird I guess but at least it's there.
I do feel like the AI can be exceptionally punishing. Like they really just completely eat the entire board sometimes, but they don't use their SP. It's kind of weird. I am not sure if it's intentional but yeah I got my ass kicked.
I think in the beginning I was learning how to check tooltips and I clicked the enemy's attack card and it attacked me. Not sure if coincidence or what, but it's kind of weird to show the enemy's attack cards in the exact same place as your own, even though it's their turn.
Overall very nice, well put together demo. I would like to see maybe a bit more interesting base archetypes instead of the usual 'do 3 damage... and then draw a card' or whatever. Maybe advanced characters that you unlock after some time with the game.
arbitrary concepts like caltrops and defending cards
a lot of people seem to be confused by card modifiers, but i can't imagine how to simplify the concept
AI can be exceptionally punishing
i'm thinking of rebranding it so that the current mode is hard mode and normal mode doesn't let CPU players gain much SP for going on long card chains since that's a pain point for new players
but they don't use their SP
all CPUs holding equipment have optimal conditions that they hope to meet before using it, otherwise they will spend SP to not lose it when they go over the max. i thought it made them feel smart but you're the second person to note your confusion about it
I think in the beginning I was learning how to check tooltips and I clicked the enemy's attack card and it attacked me. Not sure if coincidence or what, but it's kind of weird to show the enemy's attack cards in the exact same place as your own, even though it's their turn.
almost definitely coincidence, but i'll test for a bug.
i want it to be immediately obvious whose turn it is by looking but i couldn't figure out a better layout for the UI than sharing the space in the middle. i think i still have more to do to clarify this, like equipment moving from the character to their positions at the start of a turn instead of warping in
more interesting base archetypes advanced characters
i want to! i have a document of weird characters i tried out when prototyping that didn't make it in to this version. of course, i intend to polish and release this for now and if it gets 0 attention then i likely won't spend too much more time on it
the video was really helpful, i got a lot from it that i could never get from playing myself - i'm so used to Solitaire Battle that i didn't realize how overwhelming the very first turn is for new players. also, that tutorial is just not doing its job lol
you actually learned a lot about the game even though the tutorial failed you. i was also glad to see that in your second time in the character select that you had more of an idea of the different play styles the characters offered you
by the end i think there were only a few things that the tutorial could have cleared up for you. i also regret how many times you experienced the bug where the background has a 1 pixel line through it. it's so rare for me that i only found it after demo day
like the concept a lot. rreally fun game. could use a better explanation fo the basic rules tho... maybe i'm just a brainlet but it took me a while to figure out the basic combat rules
It would be great to have different cursors for clickables and drag-n-drop.
I really like this game, although it seems a bit rng heavy. It's either steam rolling with massive combos or getting completely card cucked. It's probably more of a subjective feel thing, as the game is symmetrical and there is some space for planning out my movements (that I should be doing but can't be bothered to).
Lock status in 3-2 seems very punishing since it got me fucked over for several turns just because there were no cards to pick.
I'd probably prefer tutorial in a full ruleset form. Understanding limits was hard at first.
I didn't really make use of the defense and healing as I don't exactly understand how those work (another thing that could be added to the ruleset).
Quite fun, but having a better understanding of card effects and having more interesting action cards to select from would keep me for longer.
i think after playing so much i've internalized a vague sense of when certain cards aren't likely to appear and when they are, which has me sidestep this feeling without even noticing it. i do lose sometimes because i take a chance on a card appearing/not appearing and it doesn't work out which, i guess, does leave you feeling helpless.
a better designed game would get around this, but i can't see any way by nature of it being a game based on a deck of cards... though, i'm sure an easier mode as the base game where enemies suffer from LIMIT more would make this less painful for players
It's either steam rolling with massive combos or getting completely card cucked
every 3rd enemy also uses a "master" AI that looks as deep as possible for moves, which is probably why people often feel this way
there is some space for planning out my movements
i think some playstyles in the game don't even work if you don't know to think about what the enemy might draw next, etc...
that I should be doing but can't be bothered to
...but i have to accept that i've created a game that sits on the line between being a game that you submit your time to (e.g., microsoft solitaire, minesweeper) and a tactical deckbuilder. suffice to say, i think it's a failing on me as a game developer if you aren't able to play the game as you would either of those two genres
Lock status in 3-2 seems very punishing
for sure. it's by design
tutorial in a full ruleset form
i tried this with earlier versions with a description of "simple" and "advanced" mechanics on the menu and it was too abstract for someone who hasn't played the game. though, this does make me think that being able to look through the tutorial prompts in a pause menu during the game would be useful for players
defense and healing as I don't exactly understand how those work (another thing that could be added to the ruleset)
the tutorial is purposely very terse, but if i were to expand SB (unlikely) i would like to have a "library" in the pause menu to look though what cards do what, upgrade to what, and add which card modifiers along with a description of each card modifier's ability
btw, 3-2 is really good for your first run, or even your first time playing. congrats
...but i have to accept that i've created a game that sits on the line between being a game that you submit your time to (e.g., microsoft solitaire, minesweeper) and a tactical deckbuilder. suffice to say, i think it's a failing on me as a game developer if you aren't able to play the game as you would either of those two genres
Sorry about that, I didn't play that much of those except for minesweeper. It's mostly the complexity of the action/passive cards, not having the exact understanding of those, and constant realization that I can get completely cucked while drawing cards. The cards each side starts with seem to be random too, so it seemed like it could go in so many ways even risk management won't help. I can combine greedy card picking with one turn ahead prediction, but that's about it.
though, this does make me think that being able to look through the tutorial prompts in a pause menu during the game would be useful for players
Yeah, that's more or less what I thought about, except for some more info than the prompts alone. If I have to figure out the card effects from the very little info the cards have I would need at least some feedback during the game what happens with each action, like a text log.
a better designed game would get around this, but i can't see any way by nature of it being a game based on a deck of cards... though, i'm sure an easier mode as the base game where enemies suffer from LIMIT more would make this less painful for players
I get it, I thought about it and couldn't come up with much. There could be alternative card picking strategies that wouldn't feed into the SP loop, but then the complexity would make any prediction impossible.
action/passive [equipment], not having the exact understanding of those I have to figure out the [equipment] effects from the very little info the [equipment has]
what's lacking? i'm the dev and i know everything about the equipment and how CPUs use them intuitively so this is my blindspot. you can examine your opponent's held equips, but i'm sure you know that
The cards each side starts with seem to be random too, so it seemed like it could go in so many ways even risk management won't help. I can combine greedy card picking with one turn ahead prediction, but that's about it.
if i understand what you're saying:
the start of the battle where you have one draw per turn and no sp is the weakest part for rng, yeah. i used to let players use all their free draws in one turn but then they would use them up there and have none for the rest of the board
i assume the second part is about how a human can't predict the way the board will look after they pick up a bunch of cards? yeah, but i've never felt that was a problem
text log
i probably wouldn't add one, even just because it will start to clutter the UI
alternative card picking strategies
i also don't think i would, at least not for the base game mechanics. there's room for more equipment that draws cards like 'Syringe' if i were to add more
Mostly the defense thing. Does it apply while card is unpicked on the field, or do I have to pick it to take effect? Can it be used by the enemy? I didn't get to test those much because combined with the rng it would take quite a few tests and paying attention to the hp.
The similar thing was with understanding the limit. It's hard to have the understanding because I have to track the points, pull off a large enough combo and then notice the differences. It's hard being empirical with that underlaying mechanic.
oh! you meant card modifiers. thanks for clarifying both of those points.
you're right that the descriptions of shield card modifiers are lacking, i'll improve that. they're active while on the board for the player who put it there, they even add a little shield icon to its holders HUD and an ARMOR stat to the HUD when examined.
i had thought that the LIMIT tutorial was clear:
As you gain SP, your LIMIT increases. While over 4 LIMIT, you gain less SP. Ending your TURN reduces your LIMIT by 5.
"less SP" is shorthand for half SP when <10 and quarter SP when >=10. though i think i'll change it to "at 5 or more LIMIT" and "half SP". the LIMIT HUD bar's text also flashes, but i realize now that it flashes at 6 or more, when it should do it at 5
i also realize that the LIMIT tutorial doesn't mention that drawing a card lowers it by 1
i didn't exactly want LIMIT to be something you have to track, just to have players know that they can't go infinite and that they can end their turn in a smart position instead of trying to pick up more cards for less value
Great improvements on everything since last I've played it (maybe 2dd ago)
Everything works and I saw no bugs. Great equip cards; juice is there and is juicy; chara that talk when atk and die adds a lot of personality. Great job!
Dunno what is your goal for release, but consider going for puzzle quest route, or add even more stuff and go for a mobile "just one more turn" route
Random stuff I noted
- First hand of tutorial should be fixed: in my case the first move is to choose a card higher/lower to gain sp, well there was none. I know I can draw from the deck, but what about a new player?
- While I like the new ui and everything, at first glance I don't remember what bar is SP, an icon or just SP on the side can be useful for clarity. After I noted that I discovered by chance that you can click on your portrait and solve this problem, so you just need to say that asap to a new player(but maybe you did and I didn't read the tutorial)
-I'm undecided if I like designwise to not allow to add multiple stun. It can be a super equip
-Shovel is maybe overpowered at one sp, in some maps you can chain a ton of stuns
-died at 2-3 by a snakeman.
Bad stuff
While I like your work a lot, I'm gonna be sincere and say it would be very hard for me to buy your game if I see it on a storefront. I reinstate my tip for puzzle quest or something super addictive: while your game is in a very good place right now, Ihmo it lacks the spark to make me say "I wanna buy this".
it's a contentious design, but i purposely did this because i didn't want the tutorial to be able to be used as a "second player" and have it be able to be reactivated to tell a player if they've missed a card, if there's a suit match on the board they haven't seen, etc. i'm wavering a little on this stance now, but i think i have to trust that lost players will spam click around the screen until they find the "END" button (though the draw button should say "draw" or something to help in a case like this, i just wasn't able to find the space)
at first glance I don't remember what bar is SP
it needs to be readable at a glance, so maybe i will add an icon or something
so you just need to say that asap to a new player
it says it quite late in the tutorial. i hoped that giving the player tutorialization on how to interact with the game before telling them what is doing what would make the learning process easier
I'm undecided if I like designwise to not allow to add multiple stun. It can be a super equip
i think it's vital to the design since, for one thing, there are characters based on attacking only once per hand. if anything, not being multiple-stunned would be a super equip (not a bad idea...)
Shovel is maybe overpowered
i think it's maybe overpowered too. i had considered some changes but didn't have enough time before DD51
and go for a mobile "just one more turn" route something super addictive Ihmo it lacks the spark to make me say "I wanna buy this".
i wish i knew what was needed. actually, i find these comments too vague to turn into actions. it obviously does need juicy polish and that, if i don't drop it, is what i plan to add to it before saying it's complete
it would be very hard for me to buy your game if I see it on a storefront
through my research, i've found that solitaire games perform very badly and their only success is with boomers who collect and play solitaire games with milquetoast differences and say, if i may speak in a confusing analogy, that their solitaire with ranch is "so spicy"
deckbuilders are another story, and utterly bizarre games can perform near-adequately. unfortunately, i didn't realize how much solitaire would strangle the appeal of Solitaire Battle
in short - yeah, it would be very hard for me to sell it to you
oh, and thanks for telling me how far you made it. 2-3, not bad!
took me a minute of trial and error to figure out the rules of what cards can be clicked on when. dunno if I missed a tutorial for the super basic rules of that but given it's slightly different from normal solitaire it would be a good idea to have a note for that.
I like the concept, it's pretty novel and getting big combos are satisfying especially when they work well with your item. however I'd say it's rather too RNG heavy for my liking.
the crunchy sounds are very nice, especially the coin flip at the start and its little animation.
dunno if I missed a tutorial for the super basic rules
i wonder if you did... the first tutorial tells you which cards to click on but instantly goes away if you pick one up. i think by design the tutorial system is going to have players miss new tutorials because i rushed it out and it doesn't flash or anything to say a new tutorial is being shown or one has completed
too RNG heavy
true, true. i wrote some about this in another comment
if you don’t know how to play solitaire, give it a try and let me know how the tutorial is
would also love to hear how you find the difficulty – i plan to improve the aesthetic and polish and then release what i have before i go any further with this
Comments
I played your game for quite a bit and recorded it with some commentary:
https://mega.nz/folder/PYMBCI6A#kb__dlWiUsmt-zPha-iBtA
DD51 is going to be removed by DD52.
I play cards irl on regular basis, but when it comes to digital card games, I cannot say I am into spins on them. You still did a good job, but I think the bottom half of your game is more interesting than the top, if you get what I mean. I hope the video is going to be useful to you.
thanks for playing and for the video! i finally put aside time to watch this. a lot of what you said was useful!
You are welcome. See you next DD.
This game felt very finished and clean already.
There's a lot going on, but it's not too bad to keep up with. There's some arbitrary concepts like caltrops and defending cards, but you implemented tooltips to go along side things which I think is nice. Having to click instead of just hovering over stuff is kind of weird I guess but at least it's there.
I do feel like the AI can be exceptionally punishing. Like they really just completely eat the entire board sometimes, but they don't use their SP. It's kind of weird. I am not sure if it's intentional but yeah I got my ass kicked.
I think in the beginning I was learning how to check tooltips and I clicked the enemy's attack card and it attacked me. Not sure if coincidence or what, but it's kind of weird to show the enemy's attack cards in the exact same place as your own, even though it's their turn.
Overall very nice, well put together demo. I would like to see maybe a bit more interesting base archetypes instead of the usual 'do 3 damage... and then draw a card' or whatever. Maybe advanced characters that you unlock after some time with the game.
thanks for playing!
a lot of people seem to be confused by card modifiers, but i can't imagine how to simplify the concept
i'm thinking of rebranding it so that the current mode is hard mode and normal mode doesn't let CPU players gain much SP for going on long card chains since that's a pain point for new players
all CPUs holding equipment have optimal conditions that they hope to meet before using it, otherwise they will spend SP to not lose it when they go over the max. i thought it made them feel smart but you're the second person to note your confusion about it
almost definitely coincidence, but i'll test for a bug.
i want it to be immediately obvious whose turn it is by looking but i couldn't figure out a better layout for the UI than sharing the space in the middle. i think i still have more to do to clarify this, like equipment moving from the character to their positions at the start of a turn instead of warping in
i want to! i have a document of weird characters i tried out when prototyping that didn't make it in to this version. of course, i intend to polish and release this for now and if it gets 0 attention then i likely won't spend too much more time on it
Video of me playing:
TL:DR: Fun concept and i found it fairly engaging but it's quite overwhelming. There is a lot of things going that you need to learn at the same time.thanks for playing!
the video was really helpful, i got a lot from it that i could never get from playing myself - i'm so used to Solitaire Battle that i didn't realize how overwhelming the very first turn is for new players. also, that tutorial is just not doing its job lol
you actually learned a lot about the game even though the tutorial failed you. i was also glad to see that in your second time in the character select that you had more of an idea of the different play styles the characters offered you
by the end i think there were only a few things that the tutorial could have cleared up for you. i also regret how many times you experienced the bug where the background has a 1 pixel line through it. it's so rare for me that i only found it after demo day
like the concept a lot. rreally fun game.
could use a better explanation fo the basic rules tho... maybe i'm just a brainlet but it took me a while to figure out the basic combat rules
thanks for playing! i wish i knew what part the tutorial had failed to teach...
It would be great to have different cursors for clickables and drag-n-drop.
I really like this game, although it seems a bit rng heavy. It's either steam rolling with massive combos or getting completely card cucked. It's probably more of a subjective feel thing, as the game is symmetrical and there is some space for planning out my movements (that I should be doing but can't be bothered to).
Lock status in 3-2 seems very punishing since it got me fucked over for several turns just because there were no cards to pick.
I'd probably prefer tutorial in a full ruleset form. Understanding limits was hard at first.
I didn't really make use of the defense and healing as I don't exactly understand how those work (another thing that could be added to the ruleset).
Quite fun, but having a better understanding of card effects and having more interesting action cards to select from would keep me for longer.
thanks for playing!
i think after playing so much i've internalized a vague sense of when certain cards aren't likely to appear and when they are, which has me sidestep this feeling without even noticing it. i do lose sometimes because i take a chance on a card appearing/not appearing and it doesn't work out which, i guess, does leave you feeling helpless.
a better designed game would get around this, but i can't see any way by nature of it being a game based on a deck of cards... though, i'm sure an easier mode as the base game where enemies suffer from LIMIT more would make this less painful for players
every 3rd enemy also uses a "master" AI that looks as deep as possible for moves, which is probably why people often feel this way
i think some playstyles in the game don't even work if you don't know to think about what the enemy might draw next, etc...
...but i have to accept that i've created a game that sits on the line between being a game that you submit your time to (e.g., microsoft solitaire, minesweeper) and a tactical deckbuilder. suffice to say, i think it's a failing on me as a game developer if you aren't able to play the game as you would either of those two genres
for sure. it's by design
i tried this with earlier versions with a description of "simple" and "advanced" mechanics on the menu and it was too abstract for someone who hasn't played the game. though, this does make me think that being able to look through the tutorial prompts in a pause menu during the game would be useful for players
the tutorial is purposely very terse, but if i were to expand SB (unlikely) i would like to have a "library" in the pause menu to look though what cards do what, upgrade to what, and add which card modifiers along with a description of each card modifier's ability
btw, 3-2 is really good for your first run, or even your first time playing. congrats
Sorry about that, I didn't play that much of those except for minesweeper. It's mostly the complexity of the action/passive cards, not having the exact understanding of those, and constant realization that I can get completely cucked while drawing cards. The cards each side starts with seem to be random too, so it seemed like it could go in so many ways even risk management won't help. I can combine greedy card picking with one turn ahead prediction, but that's about it.
Yeah, that's more or less what I thought about, except for some more info than the prompts alone. If I have to figure out the card effects from the very little info the cards have I would need at least some feedback during the game what happens with each action, like a text log.
I get it, I thought about it and couldn't come up with much. There could be alternative card picking strategies that wouldn't feed into the SP loop, but then the complexity would make any prediction impossible.
what's lacking? i'm the dev and i know everything about the equipment and how CPUs use them intuitively so this is my blindspot. you can examine your opponent's held equips, but i'm sure you know that
if i understand what you're saying:
the start of the battle where you have one draw per turn and no sp is the weakest part for rng, yeah. i used to let players use all their free draws in one turn but then they would use them up there and have none for the rest of the board
i assume the second part is about how a human can't predict the way the board will look after they pick up a bunch of cards? yeah, but i've never felt that was a problem
i probably wouldn't add one, even just because it will start to clutter the UI
i also don't think i would, at least not for the base game mechanics. there's room for more equipment that draws cards like 'Syringe' if i were to add more
Mostly the defense thing. Does it apply while card is unpicked on the field, or do I have to pick it to take effect? Can it be used by the enemy? I didn't get to test those much because combined with the rng it would take quite a few tests and paying attention to the hp.
The similar thing was with understanding the limit. It's hard to have the understanding because I have to track the points, pull off a large enough combo and then notice the differences. It's hard being empirical with that underlaying mechanic.
oh! you meant card modifiers. thanks for clarifying both of those points.
you're right that the descriptions of shield card modifiers are lacking, i'll improve that. they're active while on the board for the player who put it there, they even add a little shield icon to its holders HUD and an ARMOR stat to the HUD when examined.
i had thought that the LIMIT tutorial was clear:
"less SP" is shorthand for half SP when <10 and quarter SP when >=10. though i think i'll change it to "at 5 or more LIMIT" and "half SP". the LIMIT HUD bar's text also flashes, but i realize now that it flashes at 6 or more, when it should do it at 5
i also realize that the LIMIT tutorial doesn't mention that drawing a card lowers it by 1
i didn't exactly want LIMIT to be something you have to track, just to have players know that they can't go infinite and that they can end their turn in a smart position instead of trying to pick up more cards for less value
Great improvements on everything since last I've played it (maybe 2dd ago)
Everything works and I saw no bugs. Great equip cards; juice is there and is juicy; chara that talk when atk and die adds a lot of personality. Great job!
Dunno what is your goal for release, but consider going for puzzle quest route, or add even more stuff and go for a mobile "just one more turn" route
Random stuff I noted
- First hand of tutorial should be fixed: in my case the first move is to choose a card higher/lower to gain sp, well there was none. I know I can draw from the deck, but what about a new player?
- While I like the new ui and everything, at first glance I don't remember what bar is SP, an icon or just SP on the side can be useful for clarity. After I noted that I discovered by chance that you can click on your portrait and solve this problem, so you just need to say that asap to a new player(but maybe you did and I didn't read the tutorial)
-I'm undecided if I like designwise to not allow to add multiple stun. It can be a super equip
-Shovel is maybe overpowered at one sp, in some maps you can chain a ton of stuns
-died at 2-3 by a snakeman.
Bad stuff
While I like your work a lot, I'm gonna be sincere and say it would be very hard for me to buy your game if I see it on a storefront. I reinstate my tip for puzzle quest or something super addictive: while your game is in a very good place right now, Ihmo it lacks the spark to make me say "I wanna buy this".
thanks for playing again!
it's a contentious design, but i purposely did this because i didn't want the tutorial to be able to be used as a "second player" and have it be able to be reactivated to tell a player if they've missed a card, if there's a suit match on the board they haven't seen, etc. i'm wavering a little on this stance now, but i think i have to trust that lost players will spam click around the screen until they find the "END" button (though the draw button should say "draw" or something to help in a case like this, i just wasn't able to find the space)
it needs to be readable at a glance, so maybe i will add an icon or something
it says it quite late in the tutorial. i hoped that giving the player tutorialization on how to interact with the game before telling them what is doing what would make the learning process easier
i think it's vital to the design since, for one thing, there are characters based on attacking only once per hand. if anything, not being multiple-stunned would be a super equip (not a bad idea...)
i think it's maybe overpowered too. i had considered some changes but didn't have enough time before DD51
i wish i knew what was needed. actually, i find these comments too vague to turn into actions. it obviously does need juicy polish and that, if i don't drop it, is what i plan to add to it before saying it's complete
through my research, i've found that solitaire games perform very badly and their only success is with boomers who collect and play solitaire games with milquetoast differences and say, if i may speak in a confusing analogy, that their solitaire with ranch is "so spicy"
deckbuilders are another story, and utterly bizarre games can perform near-adequately. unfortunately, i didn't realize how much solitaire would strangle the appeal of Solitaire Battle
in short - yeah, it would be very hard for me to sell it to you
oh, and thanks for telling me how far you made it. 2-3, not bad!
took me a minute of trial and error to figure out the rules of what cards can be clicked on when. dunno if I missed a tutorial for the super basic rules of that but given it's slightly different from normal solitaire it would be a good idea to have a note for that.
I like the concept, it's pretty novel and getting big combos are satisfying especially when they work well with your item. however I'd say it's rather too RNG heavy for my liking.
the crunchy sounds are very nice, especially the coin flip at the start and its little animation.
thanks for playing!
i wonder if you did... the first tutorial tells you which cards to click on but instantly goes away if you pick one up. i think by design the tutorial system is going to have players miss new tutorials because i rushed it out and it doesn't flash or anything to say a new tutorial is being shown or one has completed
true, true. i wrote some about this in another comment
since last time:
if you don’t know how to play solitaire, give it a try and let me know how the tutorial is
would also love to hear how you find the difficulty – i plan to improve the aesthetic and polish and then release what i have before i go any further with this