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A jam submission

Devil Spire 2 PrototypeView game page

Procedural Open World Action RPG
Submitted by ithiro (@1r0) — 2 days, 23 hours before the deadline
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Devil Spire 2 Prototype's itch.io page

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Comments

(+1)

I wanna start this feedback with a comparison. A comparison to a burger, a giant fuckoff meat tower full of bacon, fried onions, cheese and meat that would frighten even the largest american specimen. And it looks delicious, something that you might enjoy. Good ingredients doused in sauce and no fucking pickles (I'm getting kinda hungry writing this).  BUT the problem is - you aren't given a knife or a fork or napkins or latex gloves to help you consume it. No water either. You either shove your face into the meat spire or you leave.

That's kinda how I feel about this game. There's so much here - world gen with biomes, real time terraforming, faction system with affinities, NPCs reacting to me being overleveled (the bandits didn't attack me), small (extremely small in my 5km terrain) villages and dungeons - it is extremely impressive and it makes me wanna explore a lot. But, well, you have no water to lube your throat and no knife to help yourself ease into it.

It needs a ton of polish. First of all - the controls are very clunky, and UI doesn't help, especially the inventory. Very awkward to navigate, very uncomfortable. I'd prefer some sort of grouping of items that you have.

Another problem is the sense of scale. The map is massive, but it's very barren. I understand that it's probably some sort of fantasy post-apocalypse - but at least give me some roads and landmarks - otherwise it's all very samey. I noticed different biomes while flying around, but aside from music change and different tint of ground texture - they're all the same forest-like areas with rocks and dungeons sprinkled around. I guess part of that is the mapgen issue and another part is the lack of world content/assets. Which is probably fine for a demo.

I understand that you wanna show off your mapgen tech, and it's EXTREMELY impressive, but maybe you don't wanna generate huge terrains if you don't have enough different assets to populate it.

Also - big props for making it work on godot. 3d godot games run like garbage for me, but your game was very stable and very playable from the tech perspective.

It's a very impressive tech demo. Needs A LOT more meat on the bones, but I think this can turn out into something fantastic.

Developer(+1)

Thanks a lot for your in-depth review!

Luckily, I feel like your problems with it will all be solved by the work I'm still to put in the game in the polishing and content phases. And maybe the balancing ones and more...

I understand what you said is essential to making an actually good game, so I hope I can put all of that in the game soon!

Submitted(+2)

damn where do i begin
very ambitious and very interesting, but the initial generation (at 10km) is WAY TOO SLOW. i imagine this will become more optimized in the future
sfx are very annoying, especially jumping and walking/running, but i imagine they are placeholders
right after entering the game, i touched a small stone and i got stuck to it completely. no matter how much i jumped in place and ran and crouched, nothing worked. eventually i just closed the game without saving, and luckily i was back in the initial spot without having to generate anything again
i spent then a solid 10 minutes walking around, finding nothing but rocks and hills around me, until i finally found a very small dungeon
it only had one enemy... a level 9 bandit.
needless to say, i only did 1 damage to him, so i had to enable godmode to be able to defeat him
side note, when you get to zero (or even negative stamina), if you keep holding sprint, your stamina does not regenerate at all, which can lead people to getting "stuck" into walking slowly until they purposefully release the sprint button.
the combat honestly did not feel very responsive or satisfying. it felt more like king's field than skyrim, and this is not exactly a good thing imho.

Developer(+1)

Hi! Thanks for the bug reports.

We are going for Kings Field, so the combat will start slower, but otherwise we'll work on fixing the other issues and check the balancing of things.

(+1)

>Sit tight and imagine the Morrowind installations screens

I'm  imagining. Music helps with that, it really needs some Lore Images and Texts and Stuff during loading. 

If you're not just generating Terrain, but also Lore and main Events etc. you could showcase a Year xx counter and display Images and Descriptions for what happen that Year for a few really big Events, like "Year 219: The giant Crab was finally slain", or whatever. (Update: You seem to have that in Place at the top left, please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm imagining a lot while waiting. While it is slow, the good Thing is, it's making me excited for playing, really needs that Polish.

...still Imagining, getting a bit less exciting.

I got 133 Villages but 0 Towns and Cities, also only 1 Camp. Are they not in the Game yet or did I just get rally unlucky?

Only Mysterious Stranger Background?

While I'm flying in Godmode to the Devilspire, Dungeons sometimes had massive Lag to the Point of unplayability inside them. Why is there so much Crafting, Gathering and Building, I don't think that's needed. Also the World has massive stretches of empty Terrain, you could easily cut the Size in 1/10th of the current without hindering Gameplay or let it fell less vast. Systems seem to be there yet, which is nice, I don't think I encountereed any Bugs, and it certainly feels like Devil Spire 2, as in the original but with additional Stuff. I wouldn't call this a Verticle Slice however. A Verticle Slice is a small Part of the Game done to absolute Finish, fully polished, with final Assets and every System used in that Area working correctly. Your's is kind of the Opposite, everything is there, everything seems to work as far as I can tell, but nothing is polished. 

First and Foremost, improve the Performance, generally on the overworld it handles fine, but in Dungeons or where there are huge Amounts of NPCs not so much.

Then focus on filling the World out properly, it shouldn't be this Empty. DS was rather tight and fine, DS is the opposite and I don't think that's so fine. You need a more interesting World generation, more Points of Interest to appear. UI, Sounds and Graphic need an overhaul. NPCs should have more interesting Routines instead of just walking idly around their Huts, but that reequires proper Props in the World for them to use.

Trying to ride a Horse was Funny. Quests are a bit unclear, I am to kill Rhuja, but there's no Information about Rhuja anywhere, not even when talking to NPCs. And I'm not going to wander 10km2 blindly looking for Rhuja.

Third Person Mode Camera doesn't carry over when entering or exiting Menues. Which need a pretty much full Redesign I think.

All in all it's mostly walking through empty Fields, or sometimes flying in Godmode since I got bored eventually, but the few Parts that are actual Gameplay do feel like DevilSpire2, and are engaging *IF* you envision what this would/could/should look like in the Future. 

Got Ending F, I assume that's bad. There was almost no visibility in the Spire, maybe because I didn't have Torches or anything, maybe just bad Lighting.

Needs work, some Systems I think are unecessary or need a bigger Change, generally it works, and the main Systems are nice to play. Has quite some Potential if done well.

Developer

Hey tomo, thanks for the in depth review.

And yeah, a lot of the lack of content is due to the lack of content. Might need to up the events happening chance though, it seems.

World Gen will be optimized, and performance in. General.

You couldn't Ask the NPCs about Rhuja? Might be a bug...

TPS mode is debug only. But I'll work on it if people demand it.

Might need to add more content so it doesn't feel so barebones.

Thanks again!

Submitted(+1)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2344803752

Well, it’s very early stage, don’t wanna comment too much, you probably have 3 years worth of roadmap ahead of you even so. Only one thing that is actively annoying me right now is the sound design, the music is OK but footsteps etc. are obnoxiously loud and repetitive.

The atmosphere in places is already kinda neat. The world generation can perhaps be multi-threaded?

Keep on trucking, this is def a title I would came back to check every couple DD.

Developer

Thanks for playing and the video!

Yeah, I'll have to polish the sound design more. But I have no problems releasing the game in early access and slowly but surely adding all the missing content, even if it takes years. I'll study more ways to optimize world gen too.

And you can count on me sticking with it!

(+1)

Interesting stuff, there are already quite a few systems, most seem to be OK and others at a barebones stage but it should be expected for such an early version. Overall, good foundation imo. 

Combat needs some juice. I understand you are going for stat-based but some weapons at the start feel too slow, like you are swinging in triple gravity or underwater. Hit feedback also needs some love, oddly enough the animation + sound when you hit stone or heavy armor is good, but when hitting an enemy its underwhelming, just the generic sound and square blood particles. A simple test I would propose is to fuck around with the animationtree/animationplayer timescale upon hit, something very subtle can do wonders. 

I probably played little over 1h, and as I found more villages and dungeons, and picked up quests along the way, I had trouble finding these places on the map when I wanted to track back. Mainly due to the proc gen, everything looked a bit the same. My feedback would be to try to add some variation and code in some landmarks with a certain name. E.g., during world gen, if you generate a village called Swordfall, try to add the statue of a knight somewhere in the village. just a little something that when later I ask some NPC for a quest and he tells me to fuck someone up in Swordfall I know it was that one village with a knight statue and I remember it was somewhere in the bottom of the map.

As others have mentioned, you should look into pre-built world for a quick playtest. You must be storing the map data somewhere and somehow (e.g., in the user folder, idk if you are using Godot resources or something else), but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to copy that and package it the game? And at runtime, if a player selects the prebuilt world you just make a copy of it to the user folder? Maybe will require a bit of refactoring on your codebase but as you can see from other comments, it would be a nice feature to have. Plus, you should also provide the ability to retrieve and set a seed for the world gen.

Flying/Levitating are debug functions, right? Are building and digging also debug or do you plan on having some sort of base building?

Developer

Hi! Thanks for playing and the review!

  1. Your attacks do slow down when they hit enemies, but maybe it's not enough, I'll see to making it more impactful. The rest I'll balance more soon.
  2. I will add way more variation with monuments and other outside props, but you can see the location names on the map screen, and even fast-travel to them for now.
  3. I'll look into prepackaging a world, at least for the early demos. And the world gen seed is defined by the actual world name! So if you and your friend generate The Land of AGDG, it will be the exact same world!
  4. Flying/Levitating are accessible through spells right now! (minus the debug stats) And digging and burying can be done with the Shovel Tool item!
(1 edit) (+1)

I was quite at a loss as for what to do.
The controls obstruct the view and randomly(?) disappear/reappear
The conversation screen with the single mounted npc I found seems bugged when you try hovering on nodes, the links to other nodes freaking out, maybe it's the selected node that switches rapidly and randomly.

then I found a bandit outpost or something and quit playing.

The first thing I did was dig myself down until water, then read the controls. hover seems to work, fly is more like a weightless jump forward? it seems to be iffy. hover activates the swimming animation,  if that's intentional.

-the randomize button in the character creator swaps class, gender etc, I thought it was just the looks because it is under the looks side of the menu. that was a tad unexpected.

-Include a demo world to let people play faster?

I'm a fan of the simple graphics and hope to try it again once there's more guidance. I think part of it was me having to use the hover cheat to bear the distance between points of interest. 

Developer (1 edit)

Thanks for playing and the reports!

  1. I already fixed that screen, but thanks for the pointers!
  2. Flying and hovering are debug functions, so don't worry about it, same with the controls obstructing the view.
  3. I can't prepackage the demo with a world, as I'll have to ask people to put it on a specific folder in their User folder, which can cause big issues...
  4. I already realized I'll have to add a tutorial to get people on board, thanks for the suggestion!
Submitted(+1)

I've played for ~2.5 hours, that was enough to reach and explore the Spire. The jorney towards the Spire felt really special. It being always visible made me curious about it in the first place, which is a good thing in the game with so much freedom and so little direction. It directed me towards less complicated goals, for example: figuring out stuff like healing, gear acqusition, lvling up, etc. 

Combat felt good, probably because i focused on melee. Having proper stats really smoothed it for me personally, my attacks missed once in 20 swings and didn't felt bullshitty. Outside of stamina restoration, i haven't really used any magic. Ranged combat is fine, i guess, i haven't really used anything other than a bow and a musket (this one is OP by the way). Gear bonuses felt "nice-to-have" but not necessary.  I haven't figured out the repair mechanic (if there is one) and weapon crafting, but it would be nice if it was a little bit more obvious. I dunno about armor, but i just used the most defensive pieces and i was constantly overencumbered, thought some weapons help with that, i believe halberds, spears and such allow the player to charge (and ignore the current speed limit) towards an enemy. After i got a musket all encounters boiled down to me just oneshotting everyone, but i think  it's considered to be an endgame weapon (though i think it's too easy to acquire).

Inventory management feels decent. I had to constantly level up both equipment and inventory max. weights since i had to carry more weapons and heals because i haven't bothered figuring out that stuff. Would be nice if the player could interact with items when looting. Also would be nice if there was an option to drop/transfer a specific amount of an item (when i was in the Spire dungeon i was constantly eating fish only to get rid of it).

The game is easy enough to get into. I had no problem dealing with basically every single mob. The only time i had a problem was when i met a guy in full titanium armor. Healing after battles was the only struggle for me. Good healing items are very limited in the overworld (personally i just kept eating wheat, which is weak and weighty but easy to acquire). Though killing a single guy in  the Devil Spire dungeon  gave me enough fish to never ever be bothered with finding healing items.

Dungeons. I felt like some of the dungeons were too small. Some were too unrewarding. I think it's fine since they are randomly generated. It felt like getting closer towards the Spire made the dungeons slightly bigger. One of the things that constantly bothered me was the amount of locked doors and chests. I couldn't finish exploring the Devil Spire dungeon because i was locked out of it, a good half of the doors were inaccessible. The other thing is that i've encountered some generation issues (like rooms generating inside of other rooms). That issue was specific to the Devil Spire dungeon.

Overall i think this is one of the biggest and deepest games here. I really enjoyed playing it, the atmosphere was great and i had my fun (tricked the fire horse into helping me deal with a lvl 40 npc, they both killed each other, heh). The music felt good enough and provided extra immersion. All sounds served their purpose well. It felt a bit janky, but i didn't really care about it, since the game was fun to play. I think you can easily focus on polishing and making more content for the game at this stage.

Some of the screenshots i've taken during the gameplay:



Developer

Thanks so much for playing, and the in-depth review, I'm really glad you liked it!

I've taken note of your small issues with it, and will work on improving on them. I'm still adjusting the balance of things, and the lack of content might impact that, but rest assured things will feel more balanced later on. I'll definitely have to add some sort of tutorial for future releases.

Things to note: you can break down doors with enough attack power, and the attack type matters a lot (like using cutting weapons against wood/fabric, and smashing ones for metal/rocks). 

Excellent screenshots, btw!

Submitted(+1)

Video Feedback: 

It feels very unpolished at the moment. Hope this gameplay footage can help you.

Developer

Thanks a lot for the in-depth review!

I haven't reached the polishing and optimization phase yet, so hopefully I'll be able to improve things enough on those more egregious area soon.

Submitted(+1)

It takes a really long time to generate even the smaller worlds and I had some stuttering when I was playing. I personally prefer smaller worlds with more things to interact with but maybe you're going for a more huge world like Daggerfall type of game. Still, there could be some places that aren't randomly generated, like a starting area for example since its hard to figure out what to do at the beginning. 

Combat felt a bit too slow. I found an enemy with armor and was attacking him with my hammer and only doing like 2 damage per hit. We were fighting for so long that he broke his weapon on me and was doing no damage with his fists. Then I switched to a dagger and killed him super fast. Shouldn't hammers be good against armored enemies?

I know the UI isn't final but I'd really like to see the items show which slot they're going into before you equip them, I think that will save a lot of time.

Are the enemies only in dungeons? I didn't run into any when I was outside. The outside area was a bit boring, the dungeons were a lot more interesting.

Seems like a very ambitious project, good luck!

Developer (1 edit)

Thanks a lot for playing and reviewing!

  1. I haven't done an optimization phase yet, so both world generation and normal gameplay will run faster later on.
  2. 10km² worlds are recommended because then there's a sane chance that you'll generate all the things you'll need for all level ranges, otherwise it's way too cramped and skips tiers of equipment, for example.
  3. I'll probably have to add a handcrafted tutorial area soon, welp.
  4. Combat gets faster as you gain levels, as a lot of speeds scale with stats, so it's better for it to start slower.
  5. Your enemy might've actually been using Light Armor (or more Light Armor than Heavy), in which case the dagger/hammer situation would've made sense. Still, I'll do more balance passes, thanks! 
  6. Already done in the final UI I'm working on, but thanks for the suggestion!
  7. There's a chance for monsters to spawn outside. Might need to adjust that, or account for loading in/exiting buildings. Got it. I'll also add a lot more events outside in the full game, so stay tuned!
Submitted

Is there a way to pre-generate a world so people can jump right into it? Might be good for testing so people play on the same seed and they don't need to wait to generate a huge world. I don't remember if I checked what the armor actually said in his inventory, I think I just assumed it's heavy because it looked big lol. 

Developer

I can prepackage a world with the game, but people will have to put it in their User folder themselves, which could cause problems...

Developer

The interface/menus aren't final so don't worry about them.

The game is also missing a lot of content, so the balancing is off, but all features, mechanics and systems are in.

Otherwise, please tear it apart so I can improve it for Early Access! THANKS!!