>Anything in specific about the UI? Is this about the ingame UI, or the default unity placeholders?
The placeholders but also there's some parts of the UI I'm not sure if they're placeholders or not. For instance the yellow number on the top left looks out of place, it reminds me of FRAPS.
Very promising prototype! I enjoy how it feels as much a puzzle game as a top-down shooter. The bouncing fireball mechanics are real cool! I played around with the level editor for a bit (forgot to record it--sorry!) and it seems feature-rich for a prototype, but could use some work to streamline it (although if you want it accessible for gamepads what you have right now might be the best way to do it). The art is charming--especially that unlockable character ;) The enemies seem nicely differentiated, and it seems with how their behaviors mesh together you can create some really challenging rooms!
My only real complaints is that, first, the trigger tiles seemed too big to me. It's probably just a skill issue but it felt like I triggered them even when I shouldn't. And second, it does seem like the default walk speed does seem a little slow.
But overall, I had a lotta fun with the demo & I'm looking forward to how the game continues to progress!
Thank you for playing and thank you for recording it!
What do you think could be streamlined for the editor?
The trigger tiles might need some adjusting, I'm currently looking into it. Later on once the system is more finished and upgrades are in place better, I think the walking speed upgrades should be easier to obtain.
On mouse & keyboard, the nested radial menus were awkward for me. It'd be nicer if I could cycle through categories & have a preview of what's available in said category on the screen somewhere and then choose what I want from a single radial menu, instead of having to navigate all the way to whatever it is I want from the root menu. But if you do stick with the nested radial menus a "back" option would be nice so it's easier to navigate between menus instead of having to restart from root each time I wanted to change categories.
You don't need to restart from root: Holding Q will open the group your current tile is in, W will open the category this group is in, and E contains the categories you open with W.
Oh, you're right. But still, a back option would be nice, especially for people that are just looking at it for the first time that don't know what's in where.
I like the main mechanic and the graphical style is quite nice. Its a prototype so its clear that there are aspects that haven't been added yet (like the audio and a proper menu). But overall I think the concept is pretty solid. It would be nice if there were save points so that I could keep playing and seeing further levels, but I understand that your probably intending that as being part of the challenge. Maybe you could group a set of dungeons together in sections that can act as save points?
I like that you can block attacks with your attack and vice versa. The computer AI is also interesting, them being able to bank shots its pretty cool.
Overall its a cool concept. I'd like to see more of a variety of creatures and shot types (multiple shots, curving shots etc).
There's no savepoints as it's meant to be a roguelike; however since I intend for dungeons to go on for very long in the future, I suppose a save-and-quit would be nice to implement and probably not hard at all. The pace and rate of money + pickups should also make it easier to last for longer. I think I'll have some free heals here and there...
There will be several dungeons and dungeons will have many branches and paths to go down through, accessed through different exits in shops or secret pathways. More creatures, characters and upgrades are on the way too!
multiple videos packed into one zip. link expires in 3 days. No commentary, just gameplay.
Your art is really nice. The character is cute, but the only time I say her face was on itch page, and not in game.
Anime Girl part was funny. I assume the whole character is just a little joke for the DD.
The movement feels really slow. I know there is a speed upgrade, which I only saw once, but I think the default speed is too slow. Also the speed upgrade cost 2 coins - I would need to save up to get it, and I did not even know it was an option.
Sometimes projectiles go through corners, see below:
Sometimes perspective makes it less predictable when a projectile is going to bounce of a wall, especially the lowest part of the screen.
I don't know how many levels you made, but I was getting better, and felt satisfied with how far I got on my best run.
Thanks for the linux build by the way. I hope to see you next DD
Thank you for the footage! Did you find any issues in the Linux build? I saw a couple visual ones, but I'd be interested in knowing if the level/dungeon editors saving/loading works.
You can exit upgrade stages without spending money, the doors are always open, but in the next build the door opening animation will be delayed (I didn't intend for it to be hidden by the screen transition) so hopefully it will be noticeable.
Regarding bullets, they bounce halfway up the wall. The perspective is angled so that the side of a wall will have the same vertical pixelcount on screen as the top of a tile, so you can base your measurements off of that. Basically this means there's half a tile more "inside" the upper parts of walls, and half a tile more on their visible side. For enemies and the player, the hitbox is more "what you can see" rather than x-above-from-the-ground-accurate-in-3d.
I don't recall any issues, just what you can see in the footage.
I opened the level editor once, but I couldn't figure out how to do anything, so treat it as untested I guess.
Yeah, I noticed later the doors were open. Saving money for later just never even occurred to me as an option until I found that upgrade which cost 2 coins.
Seemed meh at first glance, but there are some nice dynamics going on. You should consider scaling the rooms way down so that the situations are more likely to happen and it's more intense without much walking. That way you wouldn't have to speed the game up, so it can stay being more like a combat puzzle.
I kinda like the secondary fire triggered by other shots, but it's not really something you would use unless there would be a hitscan primary. Maybe I'm using it wrong?
Level transitions are atrocious. Locking movement breaks immersion, and the shifting camera doesn't have anything to do with the location player will start next. There's also a delay before transition that could be minimized. Simple fade to black would be better.
Nice benbo quest reference, but I don't understand.
Level transitions are very placeholder at the moment, they no doubt need improvement.
The game will speed up once more content and upgrades are in place, so scaling the rooms down would be limiting later on. That said, if the start of the game feels a bit slow now (aside from it feeling WIP-slow) I may turn some of these rooms smaller. Do you have feedback on any specific one? Thanks!
Likewise, the usability of the secondary shot should improve greatly once more upgrades are in place. For now, you can shoot at it to trigger it yourself again, but without upgrading, its main use is more centered around breaking root walls.
Warning, ideafag ahead: The vision I got while playing was a sequence of small rooms where the game is slow and clunky like it is now, and you have to take down enemies in a puzzle-like manner. Bouncing projectiles prevent you from taking cover. Gryphons require you to get close while using cover. Suppressive fire plays an important role in both directions. Friendly fire and environmental kills are a big part of it. Sorry about shitting up the comment section with this paragraph.
All the rooms were consistently ok, because it was mostly the systems and random situations keeping it together. If you are going action roguelite route then I guess you can keep the room size as is except for rare gimmick levels.
I had no idea it can break root walls, that's neat.
No, you aren't too far off! it's true that's the intent; however the max usable room size should remain big as the game will escalate. For the early game however, it's definitely what it's going for. But it's not a total puzzle-aimed game.
If you want, you can try out the included level editor and see if you can come up with some cool rooms! If you share them I'll play them for sure.
Here's my quick concept. The Gryphs are walking a bit too much by default, so it would be nice to have a kind of wall that only lets projectiles through. Spikes are there so you can't safely use cover. Rather than room size alone, I guess it comes down to condensing level design so that there's less walking and projectiles don't fly for too long.
I see what you mean, the experience is definitely condensed there though I feel like there's less of a chance to get caught in crossfire, which I think is interesting to maneuver through.
You should use Water for tiles you want to be able to shoot through but not walk!
I'm not going to comment on the UI for Buttons etc, thats obviously Placeholder. Same with the Charactre selection being super Blurry.
Its cute, I really like the Art.
Movement feels slow and I can't attack outside of the Dungeon? Seems like a great Place to test Loadout/Character or whatever theres going to be before going into dangerous Areas.
Why do I have to confirm to enter the Dungeon, jsut walking in would work better I think. And it'd be nice if the Camera faded black during the transition, and actually transition into the direction of the new Room, so up, not left.
I wish I had to move manually to the next room, not just get a level clear and autoload
The Money counter could be better, same with the Health counter. And I wish there was sound and proper feedback on getting hit. Nice that I can hit myself tho.
Without enough money it says: What you do not have. Sounds odd.
Its very samey, plays pretty much exactly the same every Room. Some variety would be nice. Maybe not only enemies that move random or a stationary and shoot projectiles at you.
Whats with that weird Zelda sequence upon unlocking a new Character?
Why is the second Character a Sidescrolling melee Thing. What?
And what exactly are the controls for that?
As for the Level Editor: RMB deletes an Actor, not a Level. Your Actor selection also isn't very nice, I can see it get overwhelmingly annoying really fast when you have a bunch of Stuff. Why not have a list on the Side of Actors to select? Ordered in the same way as currently with root>interactables>and so on?
Quite a view Pieces are also weirdly oversized and connect seemingly random. Large Wall is 1 Piece big, but when I place 2 next to each other it becomes a super wide wall? Whats with the Meadow Slopes?
DungeonEditor seems to not save your Dungeon, and not have an option/load up with an empty dungeon, btu the current Demo one. Maybe just not implemented. I'd also like it to be more visual, if you'd connect the Rooms by Entryways like I talked about above, you could then have a Dungeoneditor where you plop those Rooms into a coherent look. But for what it is now, it works I think. Altho very early and debugg-y obviously. Seems also not to save the Dungeon correctly, but I might've just doen something wrong due to not really knowing what to do.
Lastly its a shame I can't zoom in, the Character is cute. If you don't want to support that, maybe have the unlocked Characters hang around a Campfire in front of the Dungeon on the Title or something? Instead of standing in front of it looking away from the Camera. Would give it a bit more atmosphere I think.
Does the movement feel slow outside only or in all of the game? You can find upgrades to increase it; later on once there's more content variety the game will scale more and faster. You cannot attack in the outside room due to the way level completion works at the moment. May allow it, but for now there's only one character either way.
You have to confirm to enter because it's reused from shop doors atm. Transition is highly WIP; one thing I didn't want to do however is connect the rooms or have a "logical" transition, because the game branches: some stages (going by number) can be a different room each time, and there will be extensive branches once it's finished too. Atm you can get some random rooms at some points, and later in the dungeon either one of two branches (you'll notice they have a title on screen) - this is the "groups" in the dungeon editor, by the way.
Similarly the reason you cannot move manually to the next room is that I cannot afford the space to place a door in all the levels, so outside shops it's just more of a decoration. I may make it so there's always a door visible in the future, but it may still not be related to exiting the room. The reasons for that is that it takes time to do so (though arguably for some that may be preferable, but I've already had people saying they want the game to take no breaks) and that it would compromise the layout of the rooms; for example, you couldn't then have a map where you're isolated in the middle.
When you don't have enough money, it says "You cannot offer // What you do not have". Was this not the case? Either way, this is placeholder as the upgrades system will allow for "stealing" in the future.
Variety will improve once I get the time to add more enemies and upgrades, hahah. Obviously the very few present now won't carry the whole game. The second character is a cameo from another AGDG game, and is definitely not meant to be seen as the "proper" way to play the game. I think you should be able to right now, though. Jump with M2 and attack with M1. The combos are written out in the character selection screen.
Thank you for taking your time trying out the editors! In regards to level editor controls, RMB deletes "at" level, meaning if you're holding a tile it will delete tiles (and objects), but holding an object will only allow you to delete objects, and won't reset the tile to the biome's default. The dial selector is optimized for speed, but admittedly you have to get used to it first. I will try my best not to have more than 6-7 items per wheel, as that would get far too annoying indeed. I will maybe look into having a palette, but I think once you get used to the dial, it's quite superfluous.
The bigger tiles and the meadow biome at large are meant to be used for entrance rooms. These are not "gameplay" rooms and benefit from a more organic look. Some "weird" tile transformations exist in order to allow better overlapping of elements in these rooms; for example, the large wall has a ruined bit that extends if it's at the edge of a wall segment. This way, it can merge into dirt walls and slopes more elegantly.
Could you please provide more info in regards to the dungeon editor? It's true that adding and sorting levels is quite jank at the moment, since this editor has definitely not been the focus of the development for now; just making sure it works, which it should. I've not encountered any issues, so I would appreciate any details you can give me.
Eventually, I plan to have a 3d character selection screen where characters you unlock are striking some pose as you suggest. Just not yet! I may also make it so the level clear animation (which doesn't yet exist, if ever) zooms in if playing in singleplayer, but unsure. It may get old quick.
I didn't get to any movement upgrades, but its the same rather slow movement as it is outside. I just think a bit higher default movement could work well, but thats obviously also a balancing Thing.
I don't really get the whole no doors Thing, but I'm probably just to stupid to understand it. Whats stopping you from attaching one of your branched rooms to the exit door, just like in the Shops? I understand that it'd limit your Map making tho.
It did say 'What you do not have' I just ment that it sounds like wrong english to me. But I'm ESL, so obviously I have no Idea what I'm talking about there.
The second Character worked, I just don't understand why its a sidescroller one. Its horrendous to get into the Dungeon, and to jump right next to an Enemy in order to melee attack it and so on. And you could easily build unbeatable levels in the Editor for them. Even as a non-proper cameo this just doesn't really work.
I can understand a Dialo selector as an additional tool to quickly cycle through similar pieces of walls i.e., but a proper Palette on the Side would be nice, and faster if you want to make big jumps in the selection. Like going from Enemies to Walls, you'd only have to do one step instead of going up to root and then back down to enemies in your Dial. Especially if you have a much bigger selection of Things later on.
I don't know what more to say to the Dungeon Editor. It works, I can add and remove Levels and Groups, I can move stuff up and down, enter and Exit groups, and save and load Dungeos. I can only play those througfh the Dungeon Editor tho, I can't select them anywhere in the normal Play selection. That the Dungeoneditor keeps a copy of the level instead of just a reference to it seems odd, personally I'd prefer it, if changes I made to the level would directly be reflected in the Dungeoneditor. Theres no Hotkeys and the interface itself is a mess. Again, it works, apart from playing from the outside, but I think it should get a complete UI redesign. Hotkey support, better display of the overall structure/group structure you're in, less wasted space, Tooltips for the buttons and levels when hovering over them, so you don't need a tutorial for your Editor, grab and pull to reorder levels, all those Things. But as it said, this is probably just super early in development.
Also if you model no outside Walls, your Fireballs never disappear, so you can make levels where you run out of Ammo easily.
You don't need to go up to root; you can hold Q W E to open up the dial at various levels of the tree depending on your current tile. Typically (i.e. following the design of the official dungeon) you'll want to use enemies from the same biome - if not, you're free to freestyle it but yes it'd take longer to switch. I don't see how a menu would really solve this though; perhaps you could just have a long tree list but it'd still take some scrolling to get to another biome.
In regards to the dungeon editor, apologies, I meant info on the bug. Yes, you cannot play dungeons outside the dungeon editor, but playing a dungeon there is the same as playing it from the menu really. Just, only with the first character. It seems as though you can load them now so I guess all is well then.
The reason why it saves a copy of the levels inside the dungeon and why you have to update them manually is so that you can freely share just a dungeon file with someone else and they can then play it right away. If you also had to share all the level files it'd become a very bothersome process. In the future, this will be simplified by having a button to update the levels and update all, and probably an icon to show there's changes.
Unfortunate side effect there with the meadow tiles. I'll work up something to maybe delete them once they're offscreen, thanks!
What I mean is, if I'm in the enemy menu, but decide I need a wall there, I'd have to go up all the Way, then down all the way through the Wall radials. With a full palette on the side, I'd just have to click on the Wall. This isn't really noticeable with how little there is, but if you have a lot, it could easily become a lot. Like, going up from fireslime to slimes>smallenemies>enemies>actors>entities>root>>statics>walls>dungeons>broken>brokenWallTypeA. or something like that.
Other then that, its really just Work in Progress stuff I think.
-Movement needs to be at least twice as fast. And no, having an purchaseable upgrade several levels in to make basic gameplay less of a slog is not an excuse.
-Walk animation doesn't match the walk speed at all.
-It shouldn't show the "P1" above your head at the start in singleplayer.
-You don't need the prompt to enter the dungeon.
-I don't like that you have to stop to shoot.
-Gameplay in general needs to be twice as fast.
-Spikes on the ground need to stand out more. They're really small at this distance and blend in with the floor tiles.
-Enemies can walk into spikes and kill themselves.
-Every enemy can be beaten by spamming to destroy their projectiles. Needs enemies with indestructible projectiles.
-Are you supposed to have to skip buying an item to buy the more expensive ones?
-Make the Level Clear screen skippable and level transitions faster.
-Does it matter which door you take in shops? If not, you need to make that more obvious.
-The collision box for the pressure plates (or the player) is too big. Always err in the player's favor.
-Restarting gets pretty tedious with the slow pace and slow difficulty ramp-up.
-I realize it's a joke character, but the girl from that skeleton punching game isn't very fun to play as. You spend a lot of time just waiting for enemies to come to the bottom of the screen so you can hit them, and the movement feels floaty. Also, you should never have an action that requires double tapping the movement keys under any circumstances.
-Cloud shadows should be fuzzier.
-I don't get how the right click attack is meant to be useful.
-Having to forego upgrades as your only means of getting health back is really harsh.
-Needs a grace period after taking damage.
-The root walls don't stand out very well.
-The last level is bullshit.
-You can take damage during the Level Clear screen.
-Didn't try actually making anything with the editor, but I hate the pie menus. Just have a palette. Look at something like Warcraft 3 for a simple and easy-to-use editor.
Managed to beat it eventually, but Jesus, you can really feel your life ticking away as you trudge through those early levels. Props for not having any procedural generation trash.
Sorry, it seems like you were expecting a different kind of game alltogether.
The game isn't meant to be a fast paced hack and slash, it's more methodical and about making use of bouncing projectiles and cover. It will of course ramp up, and possibly faster/with more variety than it does now, but it's not there yet. Starting as you would be playing in the lategame would remove any buildup and tension, and while you may disagree about the pace of it, that is not the kind of game this is trying to be.
Enemy AI is of course a work in progress, as is the art itself. I will make improvements on spikes in the future, but I'd argue they're definitely missable as is. Enemies will also gain more abilities and some will have higher HP.
Yes, you can exit shop stages without spending your money. The upgrades system will allow for much more customization and flexibility in the future, but that hasn't been implemented yet. Saving up is definitely a main decisionmaking element of it though.
You can walljump and punch bullets back with the second character, but it's pretty jank right now.
If you know a way to make cloud shadows fuzzier, please do tell.
The right click attack is not that useful as an offensive move at the moment. Later on there will be upgrades that change up its behaviour so it can be used in more interesting ways. However, its explosion can be triggered by any bullet and the AOE damage clears out root walls. I've made a patch after you commented which improves its speed somewhat as well.
The last level is indeed "bullshit", at least considering the difficulty of the rooms before it.
If you can tell me the conditions under which you took damage during the transition or footage of it I'd be grateful, thanks!
Tile wheels are faster to work with, but may take a while to get used to. Once you do though, I feel like menus on the side are superfluous. Still, it was mostly due to more important things taking priority that it hasn't been considered for now.
>The game isn't meant to be a fast paced hack and slash, it's more methodical and about making use of bouncing projectiles and cover
Well, then I think you're going about it the wrong way. You need a better incentive to go for bounces instead of making the whole game more tedious to play so that the player will want to get it over with as quick as possible. And there's still a lot of walking involved since your projectiles only bounce once. As it is, the game looks like a shooter, plays like a shooter, and quacks like a shooter.
>Starting as you would be playing in the lategame would remove any buildup and tension
That's not what I'm asking for. You just need to have have *some* amount of challenge at the start if you have to restart from the beginning when you die. Rooms with a single enemy should be relegate to the tutorial. It does create tension, but tension over the possibility of having to replay the same piss-easy and overly long sections that weren't a challenge even the first time is not what you want.
>some will have higher HP
Just don't make the mistake of thinking the time it takes to kill an enemy directly correlates with its difficulty.
>If you know a way to make cloud shadows fuzzier, please do tell.
I assumed they were just a panning texture that you could put a blur filter on.
>If you can tell me the conditions under which you took damage during the transition or footage of it I'd be grateful, thanks!
It was from the projectiles of the faces on the walls in the last level.
Comments
Password is agdg
Nice game! Here's my feedback.
- The visuals, except the UI, are very appealing.
- The movement speed feels a little slow.
- It would be nice if you could go through the first door by walking inside it instead of having to press a button.
- It's a bit confusing to enter a door north and appear on the left in the next room.
- The walls made of branches are hard to see against the dirt floor.
- I'm sure you're aware but the gameplay itself feels too basic.
Thanks for playing!
- Anything in specific about the UI? Is this about the ingame UI, or the default unity placeholders?
- There are upgrades that let you move faster, and in the future the expendad upgrade system and pace should make this more interesting.
- I've locally implemented a better player indicator for when levels begin. There will be a little pause too to let you spot yourself without danger.
- Increased in next version, thanks!
>Anything in specific about the UI? Is this about the ingame UI, or the default unity placeholders?
The placeholders but also there's some parts of the UI I'm not sure if they're placeholders or not. For instance the yellow number on the top left looks out of place, it reminds me of FRAPS.
The yellow number counts your coins; it will probably be positioned at the same spot as it is now but it is missing the UI backdrop, yeah.
Very promising prototype! I enjoy how it feels as much a puzzle game as a top-down shooter. The bouncing fireball mechanics are real cool! I played around with the level editor for a bit (forgot to record it--sorry!) and it seems feature-rich for a prototype, but could use some work to streamline it (although if you want it accessible for gamepads what you have right now might be the best way to do it). The art is charming--especially that unlockable character ;) The enemies seem nicely differentiated, and it seems with how their behaviors mesh together you can create some really challenging rooms!
My only real complaints is that, first, the trigger tiles seemed too big to me. It's probably just a skill issue but it felt like I triggered them even when I shouldn't. And second, it does seem like the default walk speed does seem a little slow.
But overall, I had a lotta fun with the demo & I'm looking forward to how the game continues to progress!
I recorded my playthrough, I hope it helps!
Thank you for playing and thank you for recording it!
What do you think could be streamlined for the editor?
The trigger tiles might need some adjusting, I'm currently looking into it. Later on once the system is more finished and upgrades are in place better, I think the walking speed upgrades should be easier to obtain.
On mouse & keyboard, the nested radial menus were awkward for me. It'd be nicer if I could cycle through categories & have a preview of what's available in said category on the screen somewhere and then choose what I want from a single radial menu, instead of having to navigate all the way to whatever it is I want from the root menu. But if you do stick with the nested radial menus a "back" option would be nice so it's easier to navigate between menus instead of having to restart from root each time I wanted to change categories.
You don't need to restart from root: Holding Q will open the group your current tile is in, W will open the category this group is in, and E contains the categories you open with W.
Oh, you're right. But still, a back option would be nice, especially for people that are just looking at it for the first time that don't know what's in where.
I like the main mechanic and the graphical style is quite nice. Its a prototype so its clear that there are aspects that haven't been added yet (like the audio and a proper menu). But overall I think the concept is pretty solid. It would be nice if there were save points so that I could keep playing and seeing further levels, but I understand that your probably intending that as being part of the challenge. Maybe you could group a set of dungeons together in sections that can act as save points?
I like that you can block attacks with your attack and vice versa. The computer AI is also interesting, them being able to bank shots its pretty cool.
Overall its a cool concept. I'd like to see more of a variety of creatures and shot types (multiple shots, curving shots etc).
Thanks for playing!
There's no savepoints as it's meant to be a roguelike; however since I intend for dungeons to go on for very long in the future, I suppose a save-and-quit would be nice to implement and probably not hard at all. The pace and rate of money + pickups should also make it easier to last for longer. I think I'll have some free heals here and there...
There will be several dungeons and dungeons will have many branches and paths to go down through, accessed through different exits in shops or secret pathways. More creatures, characters and upgrades are on the way too!
Ooh ok that makes sense. Cool, looking forward to seeing more iterations on this!
I recorded some gameplay
https://litter.catbox.moe/pxtc05.zip
multiple videos packed into one zip. link expires in 3 days. No commentary, just gameplay.
Your art is really nice. The character is cute, but the only time I say her face was on itch page, and not in game.
Anime Girl part was funny. I assume the whole character is just a little joke for the DD.
The movement feels really slow. I know there is a speed upgrade, which I only saw once, but I think the default speed is too slow. Also the speed upgrade cost 2 coins - I would need to save up to get it, and I did not even know it was an option.
Sometimes projectiles go through corners, see below:
Sometimes perspective makes it less predictable when a projectile is going to bounce of a wall, especially the lowest part of the screen.
I don't know how many levels you made, but I was getting better, and felt satisfied with how far I got on my best run.
Thanks for the linux build by the way. I hope to see you next DD
Thank you for the footage! Did you find any issues in the Linux build? I saw a couple visual ones, but I'd be interested in knowing if the level/dungeon editors saving/loading works.
You can exit upgrade stages without spending money, the doors are always open, but in the next build the door opening animation will be delayed (I didn't intend for it to be hidden by the screen transition) so hopefully it will be noticeable.
Regarding bullets, they bounce halfway up the wall. The perspective is angled so that the side of a wall will have the same vertical pixelcount on screen as the top of a tile, so you can base your measurements off of that. Basically this means there's half a tile more "inside" the upper parts of walls, and half a tile more on their visible side. For enemies and the player, the hitbox is more "what you can see" rather than x-above-from-the-ground-accurate-in-3d.
I don't recall any issues, just what you can see in the footage.
I opened the level editor once, but I couldn't figure out how to do anything, so treat it as untested I guess.
Yeah, I noticed later the doors were open. Saving money for later just never even occurred to me as an option until I found that upgrade which cost 2 coins.
Seemed meh at first glance, but there are some nice dynamics going on. You should consider scaling the rooms way down so that the situations are more likely to happen and it's more intense without much walking. That way you wouldn't have to speed the game up, so it can stay being more like a combat puzzle.
I kinda like the secondary fire triggered by other shots, but it's not really something you would use unless there would be a hitscan primary. Maybe I'm using it wrong?
Level transitions are atrocious. Locking movement breaks immersion, and the shifting camera doesn't have anything to do with the location player will start next. There's also a delay before transition that could be minimized. Simple fade to black would be better.
Nice benbo quest reference, but I don't understand.
Thank you for trying out the demo.
Level transitions are very placeholder at the moment, they no doubt need improvement.
The game will speed up once more content and upgrades are in place, so scaling the rooms down would be limiting later on. That said, if the start of the game feels a bit slow now (aside from it feeling WIP-slow) I may turn some of these rooms smaller. Do you have feedback on any specific one? Thanks!
Likewise, the usability of the secondary shot should improve greatly once more upgrades are in place. For now, you can shoot at it to trigger it yourself again, but without upgrading, its main use is more centered around breaking root walls.
Oh, so you are going a different route.
Warning, ideafag ahead: The vision I got while playing was a sequence of small rooms where the game is slow and clunky like it is now, and you have to take down enemies in a puzzle-like manner. Bouncing projectiles prevent you from taking cover. Gryphons require you to get close while using cover. Suppressive fire plays an important role in both directions. Friendly fire and environmental kills are a big part of it. Sorry about shitting up the comment section with this paragraph.
All the rooms were consistently ok, because it was mostly the systems and random situations keeping it together. If you are going action roguelite route then I guess you can keep the room size as is except for rare gimmick levels.
I had no idea it can break root walls, that's neat.
No, you aren't too far off! it's true that's the intent; however the max usable room size should remain big as the game will escalate. For the early game however, it's definitely what it's going for. But it's not a total puzzle-aimed game.
If you want, you can try out the included level editor and see if you can come up with some cool rooms! If you share them I'll play them for sure.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4it1npbkp1v4e4/Small%20Concept.bawb?dl=0
Here's my quick concept. The Gryphs are walking a bit too much by default, so it would be nice to have a kind of wall that only lets projectiles through. Spikes are there so you can't safely use cover. Rather than room size alone, I guess it comes down to condensing level design so that there's less walking and projectiles don't fly for too long.
I see what you mean, the experience is definitely condensed there though I feel like there's less of a chance to get caught in crossfire, which I think is interesting to maneuver through.
You should use Water for tiles you want to be able to shoot through but not walk!
I'm not going to comment on the UI for Buttons etc, thats obviously Placeholder. Same with the Charactre selection being super Blurry.
Its cute, I really like the Art.
Movement feels slow and I can't attack outside of the Dungeon? Seems like a great Place to test Loadout/Character or whatever theres going to be before going into dangerous Areas.
Why do I have to confirm to enter the Dungeon, jsut walking in would work better I think. And it'd be nice if the Camera faded black during the transition, and actually transition into the direction of the new Room, so up, not left.
I wish I had to move manually to the next room, not just get a level clear and autoload
The Money counter could be better, same with the Health counter. And I wish there was sound and proper feedback on getting hit. Nice that I can hit myself tho.
Without enough money it says: What you do not have. Sounds odd.
Its very samey, plays pretty much exactly the same every Room. Some variety would be nice. Maybe not only enemies that move random or a stationary and shoot projectiles at you.
Whats with that weird Zelda sequence upon unlocking a new Character?
Why is the second Character a Sidescrolling melee Thing. What?
And what exactly are the controls for that?
As for the Level Editor: RMB deletes an Actor, not a Level. Your Actor selection also isn't very nice, I can see it get overwhelmingly annoying really fast when you have a bunch of Stuff. Why not have a list on the Side of Actors to select? Ordered in the same way as currently with root>interactables>and so on?
Quite a view Pieces are also weirdly oversized and connect seemingly random. Large Wall is 1 Piece big, but when I place 2 next to each other it becomes a super wide wall? Whats with the Meadow Slopes?
DungeonEditor seems to not save your Dungeon, and not have an option/load up with an empty dungeon, btu the current Demo one. Maybe just not implemented. I'd also like it to be more visual, if you'd connect the Rooms by Entryways like I talked about above, you could then have a Dungeoneditor where you plop those Rooms into a coherent look. But for what it is now, it works I think. Altho very early and debugg-y obviously. Seems also not to save the Dungeon correctly, but I might've just doen something wrong due to not really knowing what to do.
Lastly its a shame I can't zoom in, the Character is cute. If you don't want to support that, maybe have the unlocked Characters hang around a Campfire in front of the Dungeon on the Title or something? Instead of standing in front of it looking away from the Camera. Would give it a bit more atmosphere I think.
Thank you for playing!
Does the movement feel slow outside only or in all of the game? You can find upgrades to increase it; later on once there's more content variety the game will scale more and faster. You cannot attack in the outside room due to the way level completion works at the moment. May allow it, but for now there's only one character either way.
You have to confirm to enter because it's reused from shop doors atm. Transition is highly WIP; one thing I didn't want to do however is connect the rooms or have a "logical" transition, because the game branches: some stages (going by number) can be a different room each time, and there will be extensive branches once it's finished too. Atm you can get some random rooms at some points, and later in the dungeon either one of two branches (you'll notice they have a title on screen) - this is the "groups" in the dungeon editor, by the way.
Similarly the reason you cannot move manually to the next room is that I cannot afford the space to place a door in all the levels, so outside shops it's just more of a decoration. I may make it so there's always a door visible in the future, but it may still not be related to exiting the room. The reasons for that is that it takes time to do so (though arguably for some that may be preferable, but I've already had people saying they want the game to take no breaks) and that it would compromise the layout of the rooms; for example, you couldn't then have a map where you're isolated in the middle.
When you don't have enough money, it says "You cannot offer // What you do not have". Was this not the case? Either way, this is placeholder as the upgrades system will allow for "stealing" in the future.
Variety will improve once I get the time to add more enemies and upgrades, hahah. Obviously the very few present now won't carry the whole game. The second character is a cameo from another AGDG game, and is definitely not meant to be seen as the "proper" way to play the game. I think you should be able to right now, though. Jump with M2 and attack with M1. The combos are written out in the character selection screen.
Thank you for taking your time trying out the editors! In regards to level editor controls, RMB deletes "at" level, meaning if you're holding a tile it will delete tiles (and objects), but holding an object will only allow you to delete objects, and won't reset the tile to the biome's default. The dial selector is optimized for speed, but admittedly you have to get used to it first. I will try my best not to have more than 6-7 items per wheel, as that would get far too annoying indeed. I will maybe look into having a palette, but I think once you get used to the dial, it's quite superfluous.
The bigger tiles and the meadow biome at large are meant to be used for entrance rooms. These are not "gameplay" rooms and benefit from a more organic look. Some "weird" tile transformations exist in order to allow better overlapping of elements in these rooms; for example, the large wall has a ruined bit that extends if it's at the edge of a wall segment. This way, it can merge into dirt walls and slopes more elegantly.
Could you please provide more info in regards to the dungeon editor? It's true that adding and sorting levels is quite jank at the moment, since this editor has definitely not been the focus of the development for now; just making sure it works, which it should. I've not encountered any issues, so I would appreciate any details you can give me.
Eventually, I plan to have a 3d character selection screen where characters you unlock are striking some pose as you suggest. Just not yet! I may also make it so the level clear animation (which doesn't yet exist, if ever) zooms in if playing in singleplayer, but unsure. It may get old quick.
I didn't get to any movement upgrades, but its the same rather slow movement as it is outside. I just think a bit higher default movement could work well, but thats obviously also a balancing Thing.
I don't really get the whole no doors Thing, but I'm probably just to stupid to understand it. Whats stopping you from attaching one of your branched rooms to the exit door, just like in the Shops? I understand that it'd limit your Map making tho.
It did say 'What you do not have' I just ment that it sounds like wrong english to me. But I'm ESL, so obviously I have no Idea what I'm talking about there.
The second Character worked, I just don't understand why its a sidescroller one. Its horrendous to get into the Dungeon, and to jump right next to an Enemy in order to melee attack it and so on. And you could easily build unbeatable levels in the Editor for them. Even as a non-proper cameo this just doesn't really work.
I can understand a Dialo selector as an additional tool to quickly cycle through similar pieces of walls i.e., but a proper Palette on the Side would be nice, and faster if you want to make big jumps in the selection. Like going from Enemies to Walls, you'd only have to do one step instead of going up to root and then back down to enemies in your Dial. Especially if you have a much bigger selection of Things later on.
I don't know what more to say to the Dungeon Editor. It works, I can add and remove Levels and Groups, I can move stuff up and down, enter and Exit groups, and save and load Dungeos. I can only play those througfh the Dungeon Editor tho, I can't select them anywhere in the normal Play selection. That the Dungeoneditor keeps a copy of the level instead of just a reference to it seems odd, personally I'd prefer it, if changes I made to the level would directly be reflected in the Dungeoneditor. Theres no Hotkeys and the interface itself is a mess. Again, it works, apart from playing from the outside, but I think it should get a complete UI redesign. Hotkey support, better display of the overall structure/group structure you're in, less wasted space, Tooltips for the buttons and levels when hovering over them, so you don't need a tutorial for your Editor, grab and pull to reorder levels, all those Things. But as it said, this is probably just super early in development.
Also if you model no outside Walls, your Fireballs never disappear, so you can make levels where you run out of Ammo easily.
You don't need to go up to root; you can hold Q W E to open up the dial at various levels of the tree depending on your current tile. Typically (i.e. following the design of the official dungeon) you'll want to use enemies from the same biome - if not, you're free to freestyle it but yes it'd take longer to switch. I don't see how a menu would really solve this though; perhaps you could just have a long tree list but it'd still take some scrolling to get to another biome.
In regards to the dungeon editor, apologies, I meant info on the bug. Yes, you cannot play dungeons outside the dungeon editor, but playing a dungeon there is the same as playing it from the menu really. Just, only with the first character. It seems as though you can load them now so I guess all is well then.
The reason why it saves a copy of the levels inside the dungeon and why you have to update them manually is so that you can freely share just a dungeon file with someone else and they can then play it right away. If you also had to share all the level files it'd become a very bothersome process. In the future, this will be simplified by having a button to update the levels and update all, and probably an icon to show there's changes.
Unfortunate side effect there with the meadow tiles. I'll work up something to maybe delete them once they're offscreen, thanks!
What I mean is, if I'm in the enemy menu, but decide I need a wall there, I'd have to go up all the Way, then down all the way through the Wall radials. With a full palette on the side, I'd just have to click on the Wall. This isn't really noticeable with how little there is, but if you have a lot, it could easily become a lot. Like, going up from fireslime to slimes>smallenemies>enemies>actors>entities>root>>statics>walls>dungeons>broken>brokenWallTypeA. or something like that.
Other then that, its really just Work in Progress stuff I think.
I get what you're saying, but there will only ever be three levels to the dials. Still, will consider a side menu in the future.
-Movement needs to be at least twice as fast. And no, having an purchaseable upgrade several levels in to make basic gameplay less of a slog is not an excuse.
-Walk animation doesn't match the walk speed at all.
-It shouldn't show the "P1" above your head at the start in singleplayer.
-You don't need the prompt to enter the dungeon.
-I don't like that you have to stop to shoot.
-Gameplay in general needs to be twice as fast.
-Spikes on the ground need to stand out more. They're really small at this distance and blend in with the floor tiles.
-Enemies can walk into spikes and kill themselves.
-Every enemy can be beaten by spamming to destroy their projectiles. Needs enemies with indestructible projectiles.
-Are you supposed to have to skip buying an item to buy the more expensive ones?
-Make the Level Clear screen skippable and level transitions faster.
-Does it matter which door you take in shops? If not, you need to make that more obvious.
-The collision box for the pressure plates (or the player) is too big. Always err in the player's favor.
-Restarting gets pretty tedious with the slow pace and slow difficulty ramp-up.
-I realize it's a joke character, but the girl from that skeleton punching game isn't very fun to play as. You spend a lot of time just waiting for enemies to come to the bottom of the screen so you can hit them, and the movement feels floaty. Also, you should never have an action that requires double tapping the movement keys under any circumstances.
-Cloud shadows should be fuzzier.
-I don't get how the right click attack is meant to be useful.
-Having to forego upgrades as your only means of getting health back is really harsh.
-Needs a grace period after taking damage.
-The root walls don't stand out very well.
-The last level is bullshit.
-You can take damage during the Level Clear screen.
-Didn't try actually making anything with the editor, but I hate the pie menus. Just have a palette. Look at something like Warcraft 3 for a simple and easy-to-use editor.
Managed to beat it eventually, but Jesus, you can really feel your life ticking away as you trudge through those early levels. Props for not having any procedural generation trash.
Sorry, it seems like you were expecting a different kind of game alltogether.
The game isn't meant to be a fast paced hack and slash, it's more methodical and about making use of bouncing projectiles and cover. It will of course ramp up, and possibly faster/with more variety than it does now, but it's not there yet. Starting as you would be playing in the lategame would remove any buildup and tension, and while you may disagree about the pace of it, that is not the kind of game this is trying to be.
Enemy AI is of course a work in progress, as is the art itself. I will make improvements on spikes in the future, but I'd argue they're definitely missable as is. Enemies will also gain more abilities and some will have higher HP.
Yes, you can exit shop stages without spending your money. The upgrades system will allow for much more customization and flexibility in the future, but that hasn't been implemented yet. Saving up is definitely a main decisionmaking element of it though.
You can walljump and punch bullets back with the second character, but it's pretty jank right now.
If you know a way to make cloud shadows fuzzier, please do tell.
The right click attack is not that useful as an offensive move at the moment. Later on there will be upgrades that change up its behaviour so it can be used in more interesting ways. However, its explosion can be triggered by any bullet and the AOE damage clears out root walls. I've made a patch after you commented which improves its speed somewhat as well.
The last level is indeed "bullshit", at least considering the difficulty of the rooms before it.
If you can tell me the conditions under which you took damage during the transition or footage of it I'd be grateful, thanks!
Tile wheels are faster to work with, but may take a while to get used to. Once you do though, I feel like menus on the side are superfluous. Still, it was mostly due to more important things taking priority that it hasn't been considered for now.
>The game isn't meant to be a fast paced hack and slash, it's more methodical and about making use of bouncing projectiles and cover
Well, then I think you're going about it the wrong way. You need a better incentive to go for bounces instead of making the whole game more tedious to play so that the player will want to get it over with as quick as possible. And there's still a lot of walking involved since your projectiles only bounce once. As it is, the game looks like a shooter, plays like a shooter, and quacks like a shooter.
>Starting as you would be playing in the lategame would remove any buildup and tension
That's not what I'm asking for. You just need to have have *some* amount of challenge at the start if you have to restart from the beginning when you die. Rooms with a single enemy should be relegate to the tutorial. It does create tension, but tension over the possibility of having to replay the same piss-easy and overly long sections that weren't a challenge even the first time is not what you want.
>some will have higher HP
Just don't make the mistake of thinking the time it takes to kill an enemy directly correlates with its difficulty.
>If you know a way to make cloud shadows fuzzier, please do tell.
I assumed they were just a panning texture that you could put a blur filter on.
>If you can tell me the conditions under which you took damage during the transition or footage of it I'd be grateful, thanks!
It was from the projectiles of the faces on the walls in the last level.
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