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A jam submission

West MarchesView game page

A Fire-Emblem style RougeLite in the making
Submitted by Axelstems (@emblem212) — 2 days, 23 hours before the deadline
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West Marches's itch.io page

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Comments

Submitted(+1)

It's a decent FE-style game. Works well if you have some experience with FE games. Art works, music works, it's pretty cohesive.

I don't have much to add to what's already been said, BUT the balance is a bit off. One of the quests sent me into a party wipe encounter, which isn't fun, and some fights seem too tough, where one error can snowball into a game over.

Other than that - great job, keep it up!

DeveloperSubmitted

Thanks for playing, loved the streams!

Submitted(+1)

I said this before on agdg but I think the only major flaw in this game right now is the menus being mousescroll instead of mouseover.  It is super easy and super frustrating to end turn when you think you're going to recruit etc. every time.  Otherwise I think this is great, you have really made progress in the short few times I've seen this game.  Very charming.

Difficulty may be all over the place.  I did a few missions, some I rolled over the enemy and some I got rolled over, no real middle ground.

DeveloperSubmitted(+1)

I'm really glad you like it, and hearing you can see progress is amazing.  Polishing (or more like re-working) the mouse controls is definitely on my DD56 todo list.

I've gotten the difficulty multiple times, and I think I have some ideas to tackle it.  I hope it's noticeable next DD!

Submitted(+1)

Disclaimer: I might not be this game's primary audience. Bahamut Lagoon and Kamidori Alchemy Meister happen to be among my all-time favorite games but I've never been that big on the SRPG genre as a whole. I don't care for FFT or P5T, and my only experience with Fire Emblem is that GBA game which has a girl named Lyn in it. Don't think I cannot appreciate what you're doing here, though. Taking this plodding, story-heavy, character-driven genre and creating a breakneck, procedural roguelite take on it is a noble undertaking. To be honest, I'd sooner play a completed version of West Marches over any of the nu-Fire Emblems (I'm vaguely aware of the many controversies surrounding the recent entries in the franchise).
OK, let's talk about the demo... five seconds in and I'm already softlocked! The "Load" button was clickable so, naturally, I clicked it. Apparently, when there's no save file, the game just hangs on that screen. I've also experienced softlocks after having all of my units die or loading a save file where all characters are dead; the game allows you to continue, but without anyone on the party, the game freezes sooner or later when accessing certain menu options. One last, more obscure softlock I got: after having used a certain unit to "Trade" with another, and getting dupes and items popping out of nowhere on my inventory, the first unit's menu was gone on subsequent turns and it was stuck copying what I believe to be the actions of the last party that had acted. This party was stuck with the "Attack" command once, and there were no valid targets nearby, making the game stop responding. Mission: eliminate such occurrences!

Some other pointers for you to begin working on until DD 56 comes:
- the attack preview screen could be transparent, or change position so as to let you see which character you're currently targeting. Yeah, I've noticed that you can still scroll between targets, but not being able to see them makes you feel lost, not good UX;
- permadeath is uncomfy asf (this is a personal opinion). From what I understand, some of the Fire Emblem entries have permadeath (this is a controversial feature, I gather), and moreover, permadeath is a staple of the roguelite genre. You're pretty much contractually obligated to have permadeath in your game then, but on the other hand, the cast of characters being "generated" means that we can be more comfortable in letting go of them than we would be in a game with a fixed cast. What I suggest is making it so that replenishing units is quick and not costly. So far, I found this "Sellsword" dude (cool name) who wanted 80% of the party's starting money to join us (I had already spent the cash), and two recruit events (rare and you have to spend an entire turn doing this), not nearly enough in my opinion. Having a way of mass replenishing fallen units for money would be self-balancing, I believe: if you lose many units, at least you won't be permanently doomed down the line, but you also won't have much money to spend on other stuff, such as splurging in mini-events, buying old women lunch or improving your surviving fighters;
- kind of related to the previous point: you could implement some kind of scaling or unit cap on the enemy army according to the size of yours. Once the game generated me with three units and, though I skipped all of the combat mini-quests, I was tasked to defeat 11 troops on the final map. Well;
- generally, combat mini-quests shouldn't be just as difficult as the final quests. From my limited understanding of RPG balancing, the initial battles of a game are supposed to be stepping stones to your characters. Aside from improving the characters' in-game stats, they give the players themselves a chance to grow familiar with the combat mechanics and even makes them question whether or not and when they're ready to take on a more challenging level -- rather than being thrust straight into one;
- keep in mind that even our starting troops are randomly generated, so I believe you really do need easier challenges or even curb-stomp battles until you can take greater control of your party composition, at least on the mini-quests;
- bowmen are overpowered, they can shoot through walls. On a more serious note, the assassin is easily my favorite unit; love his movement, dodge rate and frequent double attack. Too bad they're quite rare;
- the player could use a money display during mini-quests where we're prompted to spend cash;
- mixels, rixels, dixels, sneexels. I don't care about these at all, but some anons make a big deal out of them.
Other than that, focus on UX and bugs, I'd say. You can still interact with the menu while the dialogue system is active, for example; this may lead to problems. Also, don't forget to look into the Trade bug I mentioned earlier.

Playthrough: 1+ hour. Completed three main quests ("!"), but not on the same file (because of the soft locks and all).

DeveloperSubmitted (1 edit)

Wow pretty blown away with how much amazing feedback there is here.  Can't really say how much I appreciate it, thanks so much.

>my only experience with Fire Emblem is that GBA game which has a girl named Lyn in it.
Funnily enough, this is my only experience with Fire Emblem as well! And I also totally agree with your thoughts on nu-FE games as well, it always bummed me out the series went full gacha/waifu sim, when I always considered those a nice spice on top of the gameplay/story.

>Taking this plodding, story-heavy, character-driven genre and creating a breakneck, procedural roguelite take on it is a noble undertaking.
Yes I've been slowly realizing this over the last 3 months.....

>Mission: eliminate such occurrences!
Mission accepted.  Thanks so much for listing these out, with good descriptions of the impact/lead up to the issue, it's so helpful.

>Some other pointers for you to begin working on until DD 56 comes:
This is great feedback.  I really like the idea of a place where you can replenish troops for cash, and it fits perfectly into the rogue-like gameloop (slay the spire campfire, shop in FTL).  

>You could implement some kind of scaling or unit cap on the enemy army according to the size of yours.
This is something I've struggled with for sure.  I do have a system to cap total enemy levels to unit levels, but they always at least spawn a level 1 guy.  My worry was that if I keep the number at the player number (Which should be 5 BTW, 3 must have been another bug...) then level's will feel to empty and boring.  Definitely something to think about. 

>- mixels, rixels, dixels, sneexels. I don't care about these at all, but some anons make a big deal out of them.
I don't care about them at all too!  It either looks good or it doesn't.

Again, thanks so much for playing and the huge amount of feedback.  I'm going to come back to this post multiple times for help and to remember things to fix.

Submitted

Preface: I never played Fire Emblem, but a lot of turn-based strategy games and many roguelites. So fundamentally I believe in your idea and am very excited about such a game. Now let me dump way too much of my own opinions and ideas on the genre in this post that might miss completely what you have in mind. Maybe you can still take some value from it.

In games like AoW:PF and Into the Breach, I enjoy the game from the first battle, because immediately there is a small riddle. The starting units are not 100% straight-forward; there are 1-5 neat tricks to discover. It also depends on the race/troupe chosen. I prefer to play those that have more tricks and less damage. In West Marches, to my taste, there is not enough of this yet. I hope you will add a lot more variation and wonky abilities and so on.

I played a lot of Planetfall recently. There, I really enjoyed the kind of battle where almost everything dies and both sides fight to the last man standing. Unfortunately those are usually stupid to take, because you lose so much. Similar in ItB: the game is made in such a way that you should mostly ace every battle (which is always possible), otherwise you lose eventually. Same in FtL. Same currently in West Marches. This is a genre trope of tactical roguelikes: Autistically min-max losses vs. ressource gain every battle, at the start, so you can beat the later stages. I wish there was a game that gave more leeway on the losses you take, and made encounters more tense to win at all.

Small notes:

  • Mouse controls are really unintuitive, and partly broken (wheel doesn’t work in overworld)
  • I think in my first game I started with 4 archers, which is certainly funny in a way but was confusing since I needed a few turns to understand how to attack
  • In the encounters where you rescue someone, I think the overworld text was pretty good and concise, but then in the mission you had to do "recruit" again and then there was some weird text. Why don’t those guys just start out as recruited already?
DeveloperSubmitted

>Now let me dump way too much of my own opinions and ideas on the genre in this post that might miss completely what you have in mind. Maybe you can still take some value from it.
I 100% will get some value from it, I love very personal and in-depth feedback.

>immediately there is a small riddle.
This is a super valid point, and something I have felt is missing as well.  I'm hoping more weapons and enemy types would help with this, but I'm not sure it would be enough.  Definitely something to focus on to increase the fun factor.

>This is a genre trope of tactical roguelikes: Autistically min-max losses vs. ressource gain every battle, at the start, so you can beat the later stages.
I 100% get this feeling playing FTL as well, if you have a bad fight it's usually best to just restart the run.  Maybe something like a finite number of revives, would ease up on this feeling some.... It's a super good point, and one I need to spend some time thinking about how I want it to feel in West Marches.

>Mouse controls are really unintuitive, and partly broken (wheel doesn’t work in overworld)
Yeah I'm afraid I'll need to do a complete control overhaul in the future...  Which is a hole I dug myself lol

>Why don’t those guys just start out as recruited already?
They did, but then I realized I wasn't using the recruitment code I'd written, so I made them start as green units.  Some of the text is outdated which is probably why it's confusing.

Thanks so much for playing, and the great thoughts about what makes games like this fun and engaging!  I've never played Planetfall, but it looks like something I could learn a lot from.

Submitted

Web Version gives me the following Error:

Error

The following features required to run Godot projects on the Web are missing:

Cross Origin Isolation - Check web server configuration (send correct headers)

SharedArrayBuffer - Check web server configuration (send correct headers)

O/K/L feels a bit weird, J/K/L would be better I think. Main Menu isn't control-able with Keyboard only, same with Quest Selection etc., music is nice.

The Questmap is pregenerated before selection a Quest, and you can see parts of it through the Quest selection, feels odd.

You start on a Tile but can move back up to it resulting in a kings-army fight? I thought I took a Quest to defend a Coastal Village, now I'm running from an Army like FTL? Somethings off there.

Lost all my Units, got a Victory Screen, couldn't start another Mission, as I couldn't select any Units to fight.

The new Dialogues to recruit Units and on Mission starts are great.

I immediately lost all but 2 Archers on my first Mission, but survived a surprising Amount of Rounds with only those.

New Recruits die immediately tho, if you don't have a decent sized Army to protect them, at which Point you don't really need them. 

Overall pretty enjoyable, but needs some Work.

DeveloperSubmitted (1 edit)

Thanks for playing and the feedback, I'm a little embarrassed you ran into so many issues on my second pass at this game...

I am surprised about the browser issue though, it's working on my system, and I have the "SharedBufferArray" setting enabled on itch that should prevent that.

>"I thought I took a Quest to defend a Coastal Village, now I'm running from an Army like FTL? Somethings off there."
This is a great point, and it would be easily addressed with a text blurb at the start "You are a rebel group trying to help the people under the oppressive rule of the evil king..... pick one village to save....." or something similar to that.

>"Lost all my Units, got a Victory Screen, couldn't start another Mission, as I couldn't select any Units to fight. "
Yep, bet this is a similar bug to the one diablodev experienced.  Will be fixed ASAP.

>"The new Dialogues to recruit Units and on Mission starts are great. "
Thanks!  These were actually based on your feedback from DD54.

>Overall pretty enjoyable, but needs some Work.
Thanks again for all the great feedback and bug reports!  Your comments were really helpful last time, and I'm sure they will be this time as well!

Submitted

I've played a few FE games before, so in theory I shouldn't suck.

-Map node connections seem messy and overlap a bunch, for clarity's sake it would be nice if it were generated to minimize that. 

-Did a save the monastery mission, and instead of running away the priest ran up and tried hitting them with a staff. Poor AI lacks self preservation. The mission went fine, though the unit balance feels a bit lopsided, though I'm fighting level ones with a level 4 archer I suppose.

-Panning the screen edge with the mouse is a pain, maybe use a held right click by default instead?

-I'm doing a 'stealth' mission to break out some guy, but for some reason the enemies inside the house immediately start pouring out while the guards stationed outside by the captive shack don't move. Should really be the opposite, given the house guys shouldn't have caught wind on the first turn.

-In one of the funniest turn of events I've seen, the captive's door was opened by the enemy, trying to kill him. Instead, he dodge tanked 3 guys while fleeing, allowing for me to pick them off. 

-I got wiped while trying to escape from the roadside treasure event, but for some reason it displayed a victory screen? I can't interact with the node map or Manage screen anymore though. Had to reload the page.

-I can't seem to see terrain benefits listed anywhere.

-So I played to the completion of a map(Island Town). Not much of note, but it was a lot easier since I got a random healer from the start. It starts to feel samey, so I'll stop there. 

As far as FE clones go, it's alright for a WIP. Keep it up.

DeveloperSubmitted

I appreciate you trying it out!  This is great feedback, especially the feedback on the monastery level.  I only have a few AI types I am working with, and need to expand them so I can make better maps.  This is the problem with the stealth map as well, I don't have a good way to do the "alerting"  currently, but I should definitely add one!

The escape map bug is an oversight with how I check victory on escape maps. Honestly surprised it didn't crash when you picked a victory reward.  Pretty embarrassing for me though letting that slip through.

I'm glad you still had some funny moments, and I hope it wasn't too much of a slog otherwise.  Thanks again for playing and writing up the great feedback, it's super helpful!

Submitted

I’ve never played any Fire Emblem games so maybe some of the things that should be obvious to your target audience just aren’t to me.

When using the “attack” action, it took me a bit to figure out how – or that I even could – select which unit I’m attacking. The selection window just looks like a confirmation window, and I didn’t see an obvious indication that I could scroll to select other enemies in range.

I found myself losing lots of units. I know that I suck, but it also feels like it’s unavoidable. Are units meant to be somewhat disposable? If that’s the case, giving them all names and portraits seems cruel.

I like your visual design. Colorful and comfy.

DeveloperSubmitted

Thanks for playing and the great feedback, especially from someone who hasn't played fire emblem before!

> The selection window just looks like a confirmation window, and I didn’t see an obvious indication that I could scroll to select other enemies in range.

This is a great point, you used to be able to see the box moving from unit, to unit, but not anymore with the new UI.  I'll think of a way to present this better.

>I found myself losing lots of units. I know that I suck, but it also feels like it’s unavoidable. Are units meant to be somewhat disposable? If that’s the case, giving them all names and portraits seems cruel. 

It should be possible to lose units, but not unavoidable.  I've been tweaking the stats of player units and enemies, and I think I need to shift it more to the player side.  Units do have health potions that can help, but maybe I should make them heal more.

Really appreciate the feedback!

Things seems to be working combat wise, I think you gotta either polish the UI in the combat a bit more or make the characters portraits look simpler, keep up the good work

DeveloperSubmitted

Thanks for playing!  I get what you mean about the combat screen, I'll see what I can do to spruce it up and make the sprites clash less.

DeveloperSubmitted (1 edit)

Changelist:

- New UI

 No more B/W boxes!  Now everything should have nice looking backgrounds.

- New Unit 

Types Cleric unit: Heals other units 

Cavalier unit: Horseman who can use swords and lances 

Knight unit: Heavily armored spear unit

- New Items

 A host of new items, from weapons that target specific unit types, potions that temporarily boost stats, and royal weapons that are strong but fragile.

- New events

 Many new events added for a total of 16.

- Quest Selection 

Each time you start on the world map, you can choose one main mission to complete.   These are basic for now, but have the potential for branching small stories or quests

- Map tool improvements

 Made several changes to mapping tools to allow for more specific level crafting of enemy AI types and goals.  This should give levels more variety instead of all the units rushing you at once

- Different map goals 

New ways to complete maps, such as Survival, Killing a boss unit, Escape, or escorting a unit to an escape

- Dialogue screens 

Units can now talk to the player, and recommend courses of actions for random events, or before levels.

- Many many bugs fixes and smaller changes


Devlogs since last DD
New map: https://axelstems.itch.io/west-marches/devlog/671686/a-new-map

New UI: https://axelstems.itch.io/west-marches/devlog/686239/new-u-new-i